Israel/Palestine Thread

Palestine includes the land stolen by Jewish immigrants from the 1930s onwards. Tel Aviv and hundreds of Palestinian villages and all the Palestinian homes stolen by Jews and Israelis after the Nakbah - this is what October 2023 was about. As regards Gaza, Israel imposed a complete land, air, and sea blockade on it as part of its 85-year ethnic cleansing ambitions. You need to reset your calendar back 100 years.

It's to make it much easier to strike southern Yemen and 'gazify' it.

Thanks for engaging SeanW, though I do have many issues with your pov.

First of all, it’s of course true that roughly just under half of the world’s Jews live in Israel about, but that fact cuts the other way, over half dont.

Overlap doesn't give you or anyone else a license to treat all Jews as a political unit one and the same as the Israeli state; most Jews in the world have no say or power over what policy Israel chooses.

You speak about antisemetism, but I can't see how this is no more than hive minding them, endangering them, and setting them all up for collective blame. This in it's effect is antisemetic. Do you not see this?

Whatever about you doing this normally, but for you to conflate them as one when Israel are committing these awful crimes - what is strongly alleged to be a genocide - is extremely negligent and endangers these communities

Re your Clash of civilisations point - this is all to with politics and supremacism in a region. The fact Israel are associated as representative of us (i.e. the west) is what makes me (and many others) rail against their conduct so much, which is all to do with their conquest for more land and absolutely nothing to do with benefitting of me and mine, or the countries of Europe.

If they get away with it without sanction, whatever moral superiority the West had is gone, whatever protections international law offered us will be gone, and the world will be a more dangerous place for my children, and for yours, which is not a good thing when Russia are at our borders. This is the way the world is going, look around you.

My country, my beliefs, the safety of myself and my family and friends and neighbors - my civilization - matters more to me than some brutal campaign by a country led by psychopaths in the Middle east - who are happy to throw away the safety and stability we paid dearly for, so they can get more land.

Next, you framing this as “people who want Jews safe vs leftists/jihadis who want to destroy Israel” is a completely false dilemma, and a smear.

Many Jews (including Israelis) criticise Israeli policy. Many non Jews support Israel.
How can you not accept that many critics are motivated by universal human rights and civilian protection? Are you seriously saying MSF, HRW, UN special committees, Oxfam, Amnesty, and those who support or believe them, are all leftist or Jihadis looking to destroy Israel?

You'd need some proof for that (there is never any because there isn't any), not to mention Humanitarian law, Human rights etc are not by any stretch leftist ideals, but brought through by mostly right wing governments as the dust settled after WW2.

Those who despise human rights and IHL sit on both the left and the right (Russia/ China/ USA / Israel etc), it is extremism/ unaccountability and unfettered power, NOT LEFT/RIGHT POLITICS, that dictates acceptance and adherence to IHL.
I have never voted left in my life, yet am massively against this war and massively pro IHL.

Lastly, this is not an “all-out war”, which in every sense indicates a conflict between comparable militaries. It is a state with overwhelming force targeting an impoverished enclave that it fully controls, in the name of fighting a non-state militia. Furthest thing from all our war in setup and in conduct.

Im sure when you look at war, and international rules around it, that fighting war legally involves neutralising combatants, targeting command structures, taking weapons etc.

Israel's policy has been to target food systems, farms, shut off power, blockade aid, enact a starvation campaign, destroy water access, heath infrastructure, destruction of all civilians housing and the general civilian environment.

Those are not Hamas’s “weapons" - they are the conditions civilians need to survive. Targeting these is in their very essence targeting all civilians, and are in effect genocidal.

Re your point on Netenyahus et al's "Nasty Words". They are far from it. Coupled with genocidal acts, genocidal rhetoric is the primary driver of intent in genocide assessments. If an army was at your gates, and you heard their leader roar "none are innocent", I fail to see how that is different to "spare no-one".

I have yet to see a cogent argument from you, or anybody else, that what we are being told by the experts (i.e. genocidal acts) is not happening. And you need to understand what it is legally before you can tell us it isn't happening, and nobody on here has come close to doing that.

you are incorrect.
westmidlands police told the truth and the whole truth and nothing but the truth about everything in relation to the necessary banning of mccabi tel avive fans from bermingham.
the same fans who in amsterdam engaged in very serious and sustained violence against locals.
it was correct to bann these violent thugs from bermingham who would have engaged in horrendous levels of violence against the locals including attempted pograms against ethnic minrity communities.
it is clear that british politicians hate their own people and choose israel over them at every opportunity.
well done to westmidlands police on their decision and for standing up to protect the people, they did nothing wrong and got every single thing correct in this instance.

Palestine, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, and now Egypt - all under attack from zionists. An Egyptian vessel in Palestinian territorial waters was fired on by an Israeli vessel.

Hebrew-language Channel 13 reported on Thursday evening that the Israeli navy opened fire on an Egyptian naval vessel after it entered the waters off Gaza.

According to the channel, the Egyptian warship entered Gaza waters, which Israel considers a restricted maritime area. Israeli naval vessels then fired at the ship.

How long do these genocide cases take to reach a verdict ? It must of been a good while since the ICJ started looking at the evidence against Israel. Can't be difficult to come to a verdict in that one.

And what happens in these cases if eventually a state get found guilty. Do they pass down a sentence or something which is enforcable on those leaders responsible ?

they didn't.
they made the claims the dutch police made, along with claims based on their own intelegence and evidence.
it is the british politicians claiming they made claims that the dutch police stated they don't recognise.
the fact is that a very very high amount of mccabi fans are violent drunken slobbering thuglife that should be kept out of any country with any sense.