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General British politics discussion thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,303 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This is more of the misrepresentation thats going on throughout this whole topic.

    What is it about supporting innocent Palestinians that makes you think everyone supports Hamas and Hezbollah in everything they do?

    The above aside, I asked this question somewhere else on here in the last few days and didnt get a response. Maybe you'll have an answer.

    Does Israel's right to defend itself extend to the Palestinians? If so, who should fight on their behalf?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭midlander12


    This must be one of Reform's lowest poll ratings this year:-

    Election Maps UK on X: "Westminster Voting Intention: RFM: 25% (-3) LAB: 20% (+2) CON: 19% (+2) LDM: 15% (+1) GRN: 15% (-2) SNP: 3% (-1) Via @YouGov , 21-22 Dec. Changes w/ 14-15 Dec." / X

    Perhaps Farage's past and personality is beginning to catch up with him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,373 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    They can't really break 30%. It's a serious problem for them. There are only so many people obsessed about immigration to count on. It's not enough to form a government. They need to expand their base but they're too polarising.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,918 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    in reality most people know 8 times farage is a shyster, grifter and a con artist, tice is as thick as pig crap and the rest are a bunch of slobbering mouth foaming shysting grifting dregs.

    the majority of british people know reform will wreck the place if they got in to government just like they are wrecking the councils they are running.

    but yeah, man of the people something something.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭midlander12


    I don't think Farage has it in him to 'expand the base'. If anything, he's doubling down by making statements like 'the minimum wage is too high' which can only serve to alienate the sort of disillusioned Labour voters that he relies on. After that, all that's left is ex-Tories. many of whom may return to the Tory fold anyway if that party continues its 'we're even more racist than Reform' routine.

    Now if only Labpur weren't so fuppin' timid.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭blackvalley


    Apologies for commenting in a forum that generally caters for serious political issues but just watched an episode of “ Yes prime minister “ last night and it was hilarious.
    It’s the episode where Hacker actually becomes prime minister. The dialogue particularly by Sir Humphrey is classic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,373 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's the problem with populism. The second you abandon the belligerent nationalism, you look like another milquetoast, treasonous centrist. The two are completely incompatible.

    Farage himself can't win. He may well be a powerful junior partner in a coalition or even the senior partner but he won't be governing in a Reform UK only government.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,603 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Bookies do think a Reform / Tories coalition is quite likely. We're still a long way away of course….if Farage was no longer leader of Reform, chances of that would hugely recede.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Favourite episode is Moral Dimension where they smuggle alcohol into a middle eastern reception. Like many episodes it is supposedly based on an actual incident..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭midlander12


    A Reform/Tory coalition would be much the same thing as a Reform govt, TBH. The problem is that the more seats Reform get, the less the Tories do, so there's an element of diminishing returns there. Plus they could split the right-wing vote in certain places and let in a Lib Dem.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,603 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    It's a good question as to whether there would be enough 'right wing' MPs to form a Reform - Tory Party coalition but it's far from inconceivable. Such a government would be an absolute car crash of course. The calibre of people in both parties is diabolical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,373 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Given the way the Tories have gone, I'd say definitely. Heck, Reform aren't far off having most of their senior figures having been ex-Tories.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭midlander12


    It might have the beneficial effect of destroying both parties for a generation. However, still not worth the risk. A certain section of the UK electorate are disturbingly partial to the Farages, Johnsons and Trusses of this world.

    Speaking of which, and the continuing murder campaign against irony…….

    LBC on X: "Liz Truss labels Starmer 'most unpopular PM in history' and claims Britain has 'four more years of hell' https://t.co/1warLYreUL" / X

    Post edited by midlander12 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,303 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Next election will be fought on the probability of a Reform/Tory or a Labour/Green/Liberal Dem coalition being in power once it is done and dusted.

    None of the 5 parties will admit that at this stage of course, they can't weaken their own message while looking for members by telling everyone they are quiet aligned with another party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Don't forget Plaid and the Scottish Nats so make that 7.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,177 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Reform strikes me as a more extreme version of a natural governing party for England. There is a harsh truth for unionists in Scotland, Wales and NI that has been the case for many years but has only really come out of the shadows in a big way since Brexit and that is England in general doesn't really care about them very much.

    The biggest consequence of a Reform government could be the end of the union because in my opinion they are the most repellant stereotypical English nationalist party it is possible to have and if that happens and you're Scottish you've some choices to consider about whether you want your future determined by an unapologetic English government led by Nigel Farage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,659 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It was the arrogance and superior attitude of the English led them to this point where the other nations have local parliaments and they don't. It's something Reform have certainly used as part of their victim complex policy.

    It's just like Brexit. They got what they wanted but also want to get to cry about it all the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,278 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    I had a Labour candidate (Monica Lennon) for the Scottish parliamentary election in May 2026 at our door about 3 weeks ago canvessing. When I told her that I would not vote for her because Labour refuse to allow a referendum on Scottish independence, she seemed quite resigned to my vote going to the SNP. Her last question was interesting though and she asked me if I am considering voting for Reform. I, of course, said no chance.

    You are right that it brings the question in Scotland, Wales (and to a lesser extent NI) about the state of the 'union' into sharp focus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,603 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Apparently, the Crown Prosecution Service have served noticed on Kneecap that they intend appealing the decision of the Magistrates Court to throw out the 'terrorism' charges brought against the group, this time taking it to the High Court in two weeks time. They really seem to have lost the plot with this performative pro-Israel stuff - one would assume that the UK government and the Home Office are involved in this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,291 ✭✭✭cml387


    The Whskey Priest contains this exchange which, although it got a studio laugh, is far from funny:

    Minister Jim Hacker: Humphrey, have you ever known a civil servant to resign on a matter of principle?

    Sir Humphrey Appleby: [surprised] I should think not! What an appalling suggestion!

    Minister Jim Hacker: For the first time I fully understand that you are only committed to means, and not to ends.

    Sir Humphrey Appleby: Well, as far as I am concerned, minister, and all my colleagues, there is no difference between means and ends.

    Minister Jim Hacker: If you believe that Humphrey, you will go to hell.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,303 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    It's sending a message, same as the professionals (including Dr's) who have been hunted and hounded out of their jobs for being publicly vocal against what Israel has done and is doing.

    The police will not act against individuals like the following (click play on the video), but will arrest people for holding a peace of paper saying they support Palestine Action or for using the same phrase that Likud had in it's founding charter.

    At some point in the future, a UK government representative will publicly apologize for how the countries governments acted during this period as the Palestinians suffered and died. But it will count for little for those suffering now, in the same way as David Cameron issued an apology for the actions of the UK government on Bloody Sunday, when the time came to prosecute those involved, the state insured that that would not happen.

    But just because they may avoid formal accountability, the actions of the specific individuals involved throughout this period should haunt them for the rest of their lives. They themselves know what they have done in excusing and protecting those carrying out a genocide and should be viewed as reprehensibly as collaborators were during WW2. Ignorance was never an excuse, but there is no ignorance whatsoever now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,303 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Yes Minister was about what the UK government pretended it was, The Thick of It is what it really was.

    (Both series are worthy of a binge watch in their own right)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,603 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Hauling a rap group through the courts on "terrorism" charges for something they did or said at a gig two years ago seems utterly bonkers. Even at a PR level, this seems an unwinnable battle for the Starmer regime. They clearly are as right wing as any of the three Tory governments since 2010.

    Baffling too that they would nail their colours to the mast of a deeply corrupt and genocidal state like Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,303 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    They're bought and paid for. It is what it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,373 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's ridiculous. The Tories brought us austerity, Brexit and the shambles that was their handling of covid. This is just a both sides argument.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,603 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    You don't think the prosecutions of Kneecap, Bob Vylan, Palestinian Action etc are the actions of a right wing government? Given the context of them seemingly having a major issue with anyone who criticises the far right state of Israel, it would be difficult to reach another interpretation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,373 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The overwhelming majority of people who criticise Israel don't have any interaction with the police. Palestine Action broke a police officer's back with a sledgehammer. It's disingenuous to state that anyone who criticises Israel gets prosecuted.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,303 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    One person from Palestine Action hit an officer with a sledgehammer and you're implying that the organisation as a whole were responsible for that.

    So I don't think you can call people out as being disingenuous because they mention that people commenting on Israel are being prosecuted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,208 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    "The police will not act against individuals like the following (click play on the video)"

    What exactly would you expect the UK police do about an incident that happened in New York?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,603 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    It's very unclear how a member of a rap group shouting 'Up Hezbollah, up Hamas' at a raucous, rowdy gig could constitute a "terrorist" offence and result in him ending up before the UK High Court.



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