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Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,155 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    ah I know but it gets suggested quite regularly. I’m sure they will build room into the plan for whatever the future plan is, presumably tie into the GL made as easy as they can leave it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Funnily enough, not too far away from being under Senator McDowells house, which may lead to some interesting conversations 🤭



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Grassy Knoll


    AFAIK the tunnel will terminate under the street behind the multidominational school in Ranelagh. If folks know where the Hill pub is, that the one.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Surely now is the time to review the GL conversion, and build review terms into the tender documents to allow the extension to be completed as part of the south of SSG tunnel implementation.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    BTW just to mention that there will be two TBM’s as there will be two tunnels. One tunnel under the city and another tunnel under the airport, so a TBM for each tunnel. Obviously the city tunnel is much longer and will take longer to build.



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,315 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    I'm sure that the eventual plan is to do the upgrade, but it'll be long after Metrolink is open I think. They've got a plan for capacity upgrades on the Green Line that they can do first, Dunville Avenue and St Raphaelas Road junction being the main construction, which are both necessary for the Metrolink upgrade anyway.

    In the meantime, I'd guess that the plan is to upgrade the bus corridors into Luas lines, and a possibility of looking at DU.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Further tunneling would require it's own statutory requirements and ACP submission. With unknown contruction plans and dates it would be very hard to build that into the Metrolink contract.

    A price for Operating once built yes but the construction of major project would have to go to tender I imagine.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    They can’t have it be part of Metrolink but they can design it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,864 ✭✭✭jd


    Are you sure? I thought there was talk of using the one TBM tunnelling under the airport first, then reassembling at Northwood? (edit - found link)

    "A TBM will enter the ground south ofDublin Airport and bore a short tunnelnorthwards under the airport. Then it will be extracted and relaunched at Northwood and tunnel the whole way to Charlemont."

    https://www.metrolink.ie/media/pk4n3bkl/public_consultation_document_for_the_preferred_route_hr.pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭spillit67


    I looked myself previously and could never locate it. 20 mins to city centre (which I assume was O’Connell Street) from the airport is all that there seems to be with estimates beyond that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,604 ✭✭✭✭josip




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    No, looks like I stand corrected. That is interesting that they plan to move the TBM like that!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,177 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,260 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The Munich U1 was extended from Rotkreuzplatz (which was the northern terminus until 1998) by dropping intermediate spoil shafts to extract the spoil from behind the TBM. They opened the stations along the extension behind the TBM sequentially, not all at the same time. It's definitely possible technically. As the TBM passes along the newly constucted station boxes serve as new extraction points for spoil (and indeed the tunnel and station box behind could be fitted out and taken into service like in the Munich example). Yes, it means that trucks will pass through the city from each extraction point until the next extraction point is reached so the "inconvenience" moves as the tunnel is built. It doesn't inconvenience one area for the entire duration of the build.

    Another method that I believe may have been used in Madrid is to use the actual metro tracks to remove buffered spoil (buffered during the day in the next unfinished station box behind the TBM) by taking the spoil out on spoil wagons at night.

    A third and fairly inovative method that would be an option in the specific case of Charlemont would be to extract spoil there by conveyor onto a pair or two of….electrically powered canal barges, which would shuttle the spoil virtually silently the relatively short distance to a land reclamation project in Dublin bay and drop it there. We have reclaimed land for decades there anyway. It would be nothing new.

    There's more than one way to skin a cat as they say.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    There is no reason why those two actions - Dunville Ave and St Raphaelas Rd could not be tackled separately to any Metrolink upgrade. They both need dealing with now.

    Certainly, designing the GL upgrade can start now - particularly the need to reduce the duration for closing the GL during upgrade. If both Dunville and St Raphaellas were dealt with now, the upgrade of the GL would be reduced to adjusting the platform height, and power supplies.

    Passenger protection doors can be fitted while the system is operating.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,315 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    It is entirely possible to do, it is just an engineering challenge after all, but I would argue that while it is possible, it is incredibly unlikely, in my opinion anyway.

    TII has clearly decided to do this project as cheaply as possible, and I think that this is going to carry across into every other project that they will do in the future. Anything that increases complexity, or civil disruption or timelines won't get considered.

    Agree on this, I pretty much said so in my post actually, apologies if it came across differently.

    Anyway, I think the current timeline for the Green Line is something like this:

    Complete Metrolink

    Complete Green Line Capacity Upgrade project (Dunville Ave, St Rapaehelas Road, Turnbacks at Charlemont & SSG)

    Complete N11 Luas from Charlemont to Sandyford

    Complete Green Line Metrolink Tie In and Upgrade.

    I'd much prefer it to happen faster, but I personally think that TII will want to minimise disruption for as long as possible, and it's a much easier sell to say "there'll be a replacement bus service to get you to the new green line on the n11" than "there's a replacement bus service that'll attempt to get you into town, but no guarantees".

    Anyway, that's a worry for another day, I'm still over the moon at the fact that we've got an active RO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭spillit67


    You missed one.

    The extension to Bray will be looked at when the Green Line enhancements are completed, or (more probably based on what I’ve figured from various presentations) when the N11 Luas is completed (as I understand it the Green Line south of Sandyford will run via the N11).

    This will come before ML.

    Capacity wise I don’t see the need for MetroLink Sandyford pre 2050 although Bray and the N11 will obviously suck up some of that “new” capacity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,265 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I would’ve thought there’s a separate thread for all this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭spillit67


    You’d think the same with Metro SW yet here we are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,265 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    🤣 Let’s have this conversation on the appropriate thread will we?



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: Can we keep this on topic.

    This thread keeps going off topic. Please refrain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,265 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Now that we have RO when is the official cabinet approval given for this project to go ahead?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,468 ✭✭✭markpb


    I’d imagine that will happen when tender bids have been submitted and assessed, and a total price for the best bid is know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,604 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Do we have any current competence for preparing a tender for a Metro? Or will the new Metro statutory body have to contract that out? So are the next steps:

    1. Staff the new statutory body
    2. Contract in the necessary experience to prepare and issue tenders
    3. Review tenders

    Will there be 1 prime contractor or will there be multiple separate tenders?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,345 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Looking at the high density and high rise developments that are popping up around Cherrywood, Carrickmines, Sandyford areas, it will only be a matter of time before the Greenline needs to be upgraded. And I suspect it will be long before the current Metrolink plan is operational before it needs addressing.

    Edit:- apologies, just seeing mod note now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 844 ✭✭✭p15574


    The Green Line is already at capacity, it's jammers at rush hour - and as you say, more and more apartment and house developments are coming on-stream. We should just try to ignore Michael McDowell and upgrade asap for the good of Dublin. Why can't we have multiple infrastructure projects on the go at the same time? I know the Green Line upgrade will mean bus transfers for a while, but the sooner it starts, the sooner it's finished, and the Luas frequency and capacity can be increased.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,265 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Yeah that makes sense.
    So do we now have a full SOW (scope of works) for the construction and PM teams to bid for?
    If we have a full detailed SOW it shouldn’t be too long before the construction crews and PM teams can submit bids and then those bids can be assessed by TIIs QS’s.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    "Capacity wise I don’t see the need for MetroLink Sandyford pre 2050 although Bray and the N11 will obviously suck up some of that “new” capacity."

    Come on mate. Everybody who knows the GL knows it is packed to the rafters at rush hour to the point that people are giving up on it. If capacity is increased all this latest demand will immediately use up the extra capacity. We need the GL Upgrade to Metro to start right after ML opens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,497 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Indeed, sure cherry wood isn't even have finished and the luas is basically unusable by the time it gets to dundrum during early week morning rush hour. It would be bonkers to extend to Bray before upgrading Sandyford to charlemont



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,567 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Yeah, I'm wondering at what point they start planning for the construction and the inevitable disruption. E.g. I live near the OLV church and an curious whether they'll have to close part of ballymun road during construction.



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