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Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,437 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    I am sorry but its a pointless argument, I am from rural North Tipperary and I am strong supporter of Metrolink, DART Plus, Heavy Rail, and any public transport that will help the country run more efficiently. Vast majority of rural and urban people are too.

    Metrolink and DART Plus will be of national benefit same as the motorway network, same as the stadiums, hospitals etc etc. Its a national development plan not a rural or urban development plan.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Sure there will always be exceptions but let’s be honest, while I don’t think people in rural Ireland are exactly against these projects, I do think the majority would be much less interested then a new Motorway.

    Luas Finglas isn’t exactly going to be a vote winner for a politician in Donegal.

    The point is to explain why the Motorway building was so successful and widely supported, while Luas and DART projects have gone decades between projects.

    Don’t get me wrong I’m not happy about this and I don’t know how to fix it, but it is unfortunately the political reality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Consonata


    To be honest I think there are (relatively) easy wins which are still available to us that shouldnt require a great deal of planning.

    I think if we park tunnelled projects like DU and a metro line for the south west, the Luas 2050 plan has a few borderline metro like schemes which could make a big difference (Metro West for instance).

    Again likely a discussion for another thread. I think Metrolink is likely the easiest win in terms of tunnelled projects but we likely have 1 or 2 more of those yet for the city



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes, exactly, I believe the next focus for TII is their Luas 2050 Vision, rather then a second Metro line. Realistically for the cost of a second Metro line you might be able to build 5 or 6 Luas lines which could cover more of the city. It is a bit of a balancing act between individual mega projects and wider whole network improvements.

    However it is a discussion for another thread, so I'll leave it there. Lets focus on getting Metrolink built in the first place!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    Whatever is next, there needs to be a next. We need to keep the knowledge bank that will be gained from MetroLink to be moved onto the next big PT project whatever that is or looks like at that stage.

    We have to caveat everything with the political will at that time. Hopefully somebody will still be around from the last recession and remembers that we should push ahead with infrastructure regardless for the bounce back.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Thunder87


    Isn't the Luas 2050 network essentially a case of immediately ripping up all the brand new bus corridors that'll have taken the best part of two decades to complete? I can't see there being much appetite or political will to do that in the short term



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,260 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I could imagine the very fact that we are building a metro line would make us as a nation think "hang on, we can actually do this". Getting ML under construction could be be a game changer in our national psyche. That's what I'm hoping for anyway because letting a load of tunnel builders leave our shores again after ML would be a crying shame. We should definitely keep a pipeline of projects going for a core group of them.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,058 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Moreso it is essentially converting them into Luas as the hard work is done.

    I'm conflicted. For example the Malahide Rd route to Clongriffin is an obvious change to Luas, but if that happens it kills the CBA for a SW-NE Metro I think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I doubt many (any?) of the houses on Dartmouth Square will be sold to TII. I'd say the objectors just agreed to this as a way of saving face following the negative reactions but don't actually want to move elsewhere (they wouldn't have started down the JR route if they wanted to move).

    It'll be several years before any work starts there (it is literally the end of the line) so none of them will be rushing out of there. A few of those residents may look to take advantage of the offer for TII to buy them out but that'll be because it suits them to move anyway (downsizing, escaping to the country, etc.). Most will look for money towards triple glazing, etc. and will bitch constantly to the TII liaison but they'll stay put because they already live in an extremely desirable house.

    And CGT/CAT won't be an issue with any buy outs. There'll be a purchase price set plus then compensation, moving costs, etc. The full sum will not be considered purchase price, the whole thing will be carefully choreographed, any costs would be for TII to cover anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,177 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    May be unpopular for some but could you imagine how much quicker construction would be on this if it was 24/7 around the clock? Yes it would be disruptive for a while for some at night but it would all be over a hell of a lot quicker.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,282 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It makes perfect sense to keep a TBM going 24/7 or at least as close to that as possible, but that doesn't cause any disruption on the surface (despite the scare stories from graspers)

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    That is true for the TBM part of the work, but the spoil has to be dealt with on the surface. Towards the end of the tunnelling, the spoil has to go from the city centre to the M50, and move from there.

    I presume the conveyor belts are not silent at night.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,315 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    The tunnelling is indeed 24 hours. Every nation in the world has looked at Irelands experience with the Dublin Port Tunnel, where we turned off the TBMs at night so that people above might sleep a bit easier. Turning off the TBMs allows settling to occur at the front of the TBM, that area then suffers a second bout of settling after the TBM moves through. The damages to property were far worse because of it, and now no TBM project will make the same mistake that we made.

    Station construction is slightly restricted, not 24 hours, but they're still long days, and I think some weekend days too. It won't be a major problem at all.

    Truth be told, there isn't really a way to speed up construction. At almost every possibility, they've made the choice to prioritise ease of construction. That's why they're demolishing an apartment block, why every station is top down instead of mined out, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,821 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    You could speed it up by lauching a second TBM from the southside but i would imagine getting a suitable launch pit in south dublin along with the extra cost of an extra TBM would prevent that.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,315 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Cost of the TBM is negligible, to be honest, at least in terms of the overall project cost, but the only way to realistically launch a TBM northwards would be from out near the M50, and that's an entirely different project.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,260 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    What is the plan for the TBM at the end of the project? Disassembled in situ and removed "backwards"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,821 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    They will probably run the figures if its cheaper for the contractor to take it apart or bury it on site.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,315 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Some will be removed, but the front section will be buried on site.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,155 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I think sometimes when people hear the TBM was buried they think it’s just switched off and left but in reality lots of it is stripped. Anything of value or use is removed, also any oil etc is taken.
    removing it shipping it and rebuilding it elsewhere would be very costly especially in a system where it doesn’t finish at an extraction point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Its for this reason that if there were to be any tie in with the green line, it will likely have to be mined +/- cut and covered. It won't be the case that they will simply turn the machine back on, or, even less likely, send the same machine off south west.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,058 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The tie-in with the green line will be above ground?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,260 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Someday I predict we will regret not "simply" pointing it south westwards and continuing with the tunnel boring while the thing is in the ground and the crews are there to operate it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,552 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Now that we seem to have new anti nimby powers it might be time to launch a separate project to tie the metro into the Green line. By the time the tbm reaches Charlemont hopefully it'll have an RO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Consonata


    To get down to where the tunnel terminates though will require probably cut and cover or mining, we're not going to get a TBM for a few hundred yards of tunnel, and I don't believe we'll simply turn the existing TBM on either



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 691 ✭✭✭PlatformNine


    That would delay the metro opening by years.

    Thoughts aside about connecting ML into a southwest Metro, it would have to be done with its own TBM starting from the M50. There is no way to extract the amount of material a TBM will be spitting out in Ranelagh or CC, which would delay the rest of the metro opening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,827 ✭✭✭plodder


    My guess was that it would be an option to sell, rather than an actual contract to sell here and now. So I agree it might not be clear how many will actually sell out, or when that will happen if they do. But, it doesn't matter at this point. The main thing is that the project can move forward.

    For what it's worth, I was just looking at the exact station locations, and Charlemont does seem to be the closest to existing houses and probably the most disruptive. Some others on the Northside are almost as close, but there are relatively busy roads in between and the disruption at these locations will be caused by daytime construction activities at surface level (or starting at surface level) rather than from the TBMs going 24x7

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,762 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Is there anywhere I could get journey times to city centre for each Metrolink station? I’ve looked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,438 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    we're buying a big chunk of land right beside the southern terminus!

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,155 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    would need acres of land to remove soil and insert the linings on an ongoing basis. Thats without taking into account the constant back and forth of trucks going to and from to the site. Roads couldn’t take it. There’s just no way there could be a dig from the city end.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,438 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    I wasn't really being serious, even if they did want to do it from Dartmouth Square, it's not actually the southern end of the tunnel which goes a few hundred metres further south.

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