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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Just to add that Nash was also injured and got a mention as such when squads were announced.

    He’s only just back now so Nash will need to demonstrate his ability over the next couple of months to stake a claim for a wing spot for the 6 Nations.

    Personally I like what Bolton brings, he’s physically strong and explosive in the carry.

    But realistically we aren’t going to have all of the options fit and in form at the same time.

    I think Lowe, Stockdale, Bolton for left wing,

    Hansen, T O’Btien, Nash for right wing,

    Keenan and Osborne for fullback,

    With Baloucoune, Kilgallen, Jimmy O’Btien and recently Joshua Kenny scoring a lot of tries.

    Michael Lowry Is another that gets mentioned frequently but I think he should have converted to scrum half ages ago, he’s lively but too small for Ireland in the back three.
    Another player that has been good in patches over the last year or so but just gets injured too often is Andrew Smith.

    I think Larmour is past his best and won’t make another Irish squad.

    There are a couple of more wingers around that may come more to the forefront in the next season or two, but just not there yet for this coming 6 Nations perhaps.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    There’s more in Larmour I feel his best is yet to come



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,320 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Maybe I've missed the post, but who is making the case for playing slow wingers??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,475 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Yep, I believe he even received online death threats after the 2019 WC which is just mental.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,864 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Poor Larmour just can't stay fit. He's absolutely great to watch but I feel like his feet are one step ahead of his brain at times. He's worth a look if he can get a consistent run of quality games though (same as anyone)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,532 ✭✭✭Lu Tze


    When he was younger, that's exactly what I thought of him, headless chicken, like he could step all the opposition players on his way to the try line. It was exciting but not all that effective. The odd time ive seen him (due to injury) over the last couple of years I thought his game had matured very well, rarely getting isolated, offloading more after stepping the first (or second ) defender. I think he is likely a much better player now if he could put a string of appearances together without injury



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,687 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    That's not true. Hansen was horribly out of form in the first half of last season. He wasn't even the best winger in Connacht. He improved as the season went on and by the end he was in good form and a Lion. But the first few months, he was crap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Yes, maybe you have. Making a case for Lowe is making a case for a slow winger. Now go back and read the posts telling us that there's just no alternative to this slow winger.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Lowe has always been relatively slow for a winger but that wasn’t a massive issue a few years ago when he was genuinely excellent and brought a lot to the table that made up for his lack of pace. The issue now is he’s just not very good anymore.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,320 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    So no one is asking for slow wingers then?

    All I see is posters arguing that while Lowes form is not as good as it used to be, there's no left wingers putting in performances demanding the jersey. Stockdale had a chance to take the jersey and ultimately failed on that opportunity.

    Lowe has always been power winger and not a pacy winger. That lack of pace hasn't stopped him becoming 2nd top try scorer ever for Leinster (1 off Shane Horgan, and a record he will surely have when he finishes).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    https://www.instagram.com/reel/DSk9qNEkqUU/?igsh=MXN4YTNhbWc4MGgzNQ==

    There's a comment on the Japan thread that includes "Stockdale what a loser". No-one else comments on it. That's the level of critical analysis of his play that is acceptable - that's not the majority of it, but at this stage comments like that are unremarkable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    Stockdale comprehensively outplayed Lowe yet Lowe scored a try and assisted in another try made similar metres and more line breaks. Lowe getting humbled by Stewart and kicking out on the full were **** ups but his bad game still brough a lot more upside than Stockdales for his team



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,957 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    To be fair syd, we also have a poster arguing if you don't agree Lowe is the best option, you're "pretending", with the added suggestion that Stockdale playing well at 15 in a conversation about him vs Lowe means nothing because it's a different position, and is the equivalent of Conan playing well to replace Doak….

    It should be possible to have a difference of opinion without being met with the above, imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Not really. Those kind of comparisons are pretty facile when you consider there's 14 other players on your team bringing an awful lot of variables. How would Lowe have done on the Ulster team, how would Stockdale have done on the Leinster team? Was Lowe as good as his positional equivalent on the Ulster team, Werner Kok? Kok scored twice as many tries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,547 ✭✭✭✭phog


    This is a welcome fixture

    An Ireland XV will take on England 'A' in Limerick's Thomond Park next February.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,547 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Edit to add the date

    Friday 6th February, which is the day after we play France in Paris



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Good to see. Hopefully more game time for players that are almost at International level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,957 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I''d agree with a lot of this, but another point to is that, imo, it's obvious we do have options.

    It's not at all really like the Cian Healy situation, imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,957 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I've never liked leaning on player ratings to back-up an argument, but if you look at the average rating for every player across those 3 games, Lowe comes out as our 12th highest ranked player.

    Now, there 1 or 2 outliers in there, but I think most would agree all of Hansen, Baird, Doris, JGP, VdF, McCloskey and Conan - at a minimum - were better than him.

    And that's in the context of a poor Autumn.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,070 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    With the weather being really crap, instead of spending time in the mountains……I still have over 100 Munros to climb, I have rewatched all of Ireland's games from 2022 to the Autumn series just past. I have also been wqtching all the current URC and European games featuring the 4 Provinces.

    As a 76 year old rugby man, I have seen over 60+ years of games and seen many great irish teams and many poor ones also. The advent of professionalism meant that Irish pro players could at last begin to compete on an equal footing with teams that were professional in everything but name, i.e. England, France, Wales and the Southern Hemisphere teams. I have seen the rise and fall of our teams over the years. The 'falls' are usual gradual until suddenly they tip over the edge. That has been happening since just after the 2023 RWC. Incremental slipping in the levels of skills and strategies that made Ireland…..and Leinster winners. Great to watch too. The stuffing by France in the 6Ns should have set alarms ringing but the signs were there even though we were still winning. Look at the games against Wales, Scotand, Italy and England with a critical eye.Wales actually ran us close when they should have been crushed but we weren't good enough to do what we needed. It was the same against Scotland. WE won but at times we were very ordinary. At others we looked sharp and ready to reclaim our form but these moments have become increasingly rare. It was the same in the Autumn though we did manage to stuff Australia and looked as if we had got over the 'hump' as it were but then we ran into the storm of SA. The scoreline flattered us though our players left nothing on the pitch which is to their credit.

    What is happening of course is that time is taking it's toll on the best of our players and we don't see….or have yet to recognise…..those that will fill their shirts. Great players have lost some / a lot of their edge. It's not just in Green either as Leinster are looking the same. They are good enough to win most games but against the top teams…like France, S.A., N.Z. we have lost the cutting edge.

    It is unrealistic to expect guys like Lowe, Henshaw, Ringrose et al to continue forever. Games are won by forwards and ours have lost that beastiality that made them ferocious. They are still 'good' but less often 'great.' Furlong isn't just as effective as he was, Van der Flier is still good but not the tornado he was. Ryan isn't as effective. Beirne looks off the boil. Baird has as many quiet games as eye catching ones. Even the force of nature that is Dan Sheehan is a bit off the boil. Neither of our 10s is terrible but they have room for improvement. Conan and Doris both look in great form which is heartening.

    It is the nature of things to go in cycles of rise and decline. Let us hope that the incoming generation brings with them what our current guys have given. Some will regain form, new strategies will be developed, surprise star players will appear out of 'nowhere' but the clock ticks on and can't be denied forever. I wonder how long we will have to appreciate those who have given us such enjoyment over the last decade or so.

    AS a predominantly Ulster supporter, I take great pleasure and delight when Leinster, Munster and Connacht do well. I think some of the 'hate' directed at opponents is childish, puerile and a waste of energy. James Lowe 'hates' Ulster for some reason and no doubt other teams. Well he isn't here as an existentialist philosopher but it's not really a good look. I hope he has another season in him at his best. He has been a great player and done us proud.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭OldRio


    That above a million times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,475 ✭✭✭✭bilston




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭Bart97


    Stockdale is slow now? I’ve heard it all.


    I genuinely question if many of the posters on here have actually watched any of the players they talk about sometimes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,070 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    I'm not sure that is what was meant. I think their case was for Lowe to continue even if he has slowed rather than calling Stockdale slow……



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,547 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Tickets on sale for the A game in Thomond Park

    €33 before charges for East Terrace tickets



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭ersatz


    On Stockdale, I remember an interview with him a couple of years after his massive 6N season where he talked about how social media had negatively affected him. One notable part was that he had gone into a rabbit hole and paid a lot of attention to it, which for a kid who is suddenly a sporting superstar is highly dangerous, not least because there are a lot of people online who think nothing of attacking and hurting people. I do hope the provinces and the IRFU have policies and training in place to help young players protect themselves from that stuff, easier said than done these days but it can be ferociously toxic and dangerous to mental health.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,664 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    We should start looking closer to home than " social media" when it comes to toxicity towards players.

    This place can be a cesspit of hate from time to time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,547 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I'm not disagreeing with you nor condoning what happens here but players, refs, coaches and commentators are tagged on X etc at least here a player would have to actively seek it out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,664 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Yeah, thats true of any online fan zone. At least here the mods do their best to nip toxic stuff in the bud, and other posters are quick to jump on stuff thats out of order, but it does also get personal sometimes here. Anyway, hat tip and happy christmas to the mods for the work they do to keep that stuff under control.



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