Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Nope. Just outright refusal to buy into hyperbolic nonsense.

We have people here saying Lowe's defence is the problem and then suggesting he be replaced by someone whose defence is arguably much worse.

We also have people here saying that Lowe has been poor for 12-18 months now - which is just plain untrue. Those are the facts of the matter.

MOD EDIT Poster Warned

I'm sorry, but there is very clearly a qualitative aspect to "Some guys grab their chances, others don’t" independent of whoever's posted it.

(And is there any chance we can refrain for the ad-hominem "set you off" comments and just stick to what's actually being discussed here?)

My point is, it overlooks any context of injuries. Correct me if I'm wrong, but

• Keenan & Hansen were injured for the NZ game, and
• Keenan and Osborne were both injured for both the Australia and SA games?

Those injuries, and Hansen's versatility added to affording TOB an opportunity in a way that largely isn't available to Stockdale by moving Lowe, by dint of the fact Lowe only covers 11. And I could also add that Lowe has started 20 of the last 21 Tier 1 Test's going back to the start of the RWC.

All of that is part of the context that "Some guys grab their chances, others don’t" just doesn't take into account.

And fwiw, I haven't ignored your praise of Stockdale. But it can't be the case that you've acknowledged he's playing well, and acknowledged that Lowe is maybe past his peak, but then say that anyone suggesting Lowe isn't our best left wing is "pretending".

I also don't accept that a player outside the starting 15 needs to be "monstering" teams, when the incumbent hasn't been playing well for a period of time now. For me, Lowe was pretty poor in the 2024 AI's, bounced back and was excellent against England in the 6 Nations, but since then has largely been underwhelming. At best.

You're right.

Arguably is being kind.

How did Stockdale get on in his last game for Ireland?

👆️Precisely. Lowe isn't competing with Lowe of three years ago, he's competing with players who may be faster but who aren't better in any other regard, whether that's kicking, breaking tackles, playmaking, or finishing. For that matter he's not competing with any other Lions for places on the Irish or Leinster teams. Formise his stock is such that coaches see past it, as they're doing with quite a large group of players.

So despite being one of our better players across the entire Autumn Nations Series, he shouldn't be coming within a sniff of an Irish cap?

Anyone who thinks he's playing well is seeing what they want to see.

Imagine wanting to see an Ireland player playing well. Bang out of order is what it is.

But the whole thing is exactly like the Cian Healy debate last year. There are two separate questions here:

1. Is Lowe playing as well as he used to?
2. Do we have someone better?

The answer is very probably no to both of them, and as much as people might not like it, that still means that Lowe is our best left wing.

Anyone claiming that Lowe (named in World Rugby team of the year one year ago) is only there based on what he did three years ago doesn't really care about this Ireland team, they just want their guy picked.

Anything to back this up?

Let's go through the player ratings according to various sources in each of the games:

New Zealand:

RTE: 7/10

Irish Times: 6/10

Irish Independent: 6/10

Irish Examiner: 8/10

Australia:

RTE: 8/10

Irish Times: 7/10

Irish Independent: 7/10

Irish Examiner: 6.5/10

South Africa:

RTE: 7/10

Irish Times: 7/10

Irish Independent: 6/10

Irish Examiner: 5.5/10

===

I left the links in there so you can read them yourself. Just under 7/10 for the series and consistently in the top 3 or 4 in each report for the most part.

Look at all the players in each of those match reports consistently below him, and tell me that James Lowe is the issue and that his form is so bad that he shouldn't 'be within a sniff of an Irish cap'.

The point in all of this is that, even if you still think Lowe is our best left wing, there’s no way the answer to question 2 is so equivocal that people disagreeing with your are “pretending otherwise”.

So if you’re not arguing for Stockdale then who? We can’t seriously be going with the “well anyone would be better” line?

If we had someone of the calibre of Hansen or Keenan to play 11 then things would be different, but we don’t. We can pretend Stockdale playing like a drain against tier 2 opposition doesn’t matter, but it does.

Stockdale had a good game in a different position on Friday so if we’re arguing for a change at 11 I’m not sure it helped. Jack Conan outplayed Neil Doak, should we move him to scrum half?

The focus was on Hansen last season, playing well but people went after him

This season he scores a hat trick in Irish game so now focus is on Lowe

Lowe just needs to score a hat trick……

Not specifically. (Although I have never seen anyone get the hate and abuse Stockdale did when his form started to slip.)

Baloucoune was no more than alright on Friday but the hysterical posts shrieking that he had been "abysmal"were quite telling. It depends on how much threat there is to the competing player from some posters' own provinces.

Firstly, I'm not just talking about this forum. There was an astonishing hate online.

And go and look at some of the comments on the Japan game thread - where he wasn't great but certainly didn't deserve what he was getting.

No-one's saying players don't get abuse from, and short-changed by, online "supporters" but the grief Stockdale git five years ago was astonishing.