Meanwhile on the Roads...

Paddigol · 12-12-2025 01:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064381#Comment_124064381

Exact same happened to me a little bit further up the road at RTE a good few years back too! I went to the trouble of carrying a print out of the relevant section on me for months afterwards just in case the clown pulled me up again.

CramCycle · 12-12-2025 02:04PM

MOD VOICE: Report posts if there are issues with them, do not moderate in thread, this is aimed at everyone

hans aus dtschl · 12-12-2025 03:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064276#Comment_124064276

…what the cyclists are doing is not illegal and potentially only dangerous to themselves

If I may, the word "potentially" is doing some heavy lifting here. It's "potentially dangerous to themselves" in the same way as getting a commercial flight or getting in a car is "potentially dangerous".

You absolutely MUST have realised by the time you wrote this post that some people are choosing to cycle on the road for reasons of their own safety, but you have described it as "potentially dangerous" once again. Could you possibly explain why you would write that? It seems as though you may have had an idea in your head that these people were doing something dangerous, rather than doing something safe.

It is also very peculiar to me that someone who cycles would not immediately know the reason that people chose to avoid that cycle lane: do you not have access to cycle lanes where you normally cycle? For instance I have no idea where the video was taken but it was immediately clear to me why some people were in the cycle lane and some weren't. I would genuinely worry for your own observation skills as a cyclist if you're not quickly understanding what's going on in the clip.

12-12-2025 03:49PM

There's lots of information available online about why some cyclists don't use some cycle lanes for anyone who might be interested;

https://www.cyclingfallacies.org/en/people-dont-use-cycling-facilities-that-already-exist.html

https://www.bwbconsulting.com/insights/the-truth-about-cycle-lanes-investment-impact-and-public-perception/

https://irishcycle.com/2023/04/05/if-cyclists-dont-use-a-cycle-lane-theres-a-good-reason-for-it/

https://irishcycle.com/2015/11/05/images-25-reasons-why-cyclists-dont-use-cycle-lanes/

Red Silurian · 12-12-2025 04:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064888#Comment_124064888

Do you really need it explained to you how a cycle lane is less dangerous than a road with cars, busses and trucks on it?

12-12-2025 04:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064957#Comment_124064957

Lots of good explanations here;

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064903#Comment_124064903

07Lapierre · 12-12-2025 04:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064957#Comment_124064957

Not all Cycle lanes are the same….do you consider this a safe cycle lane?

https://maps.app.goo.gl/7WX5MLyV8rhK2r8y5

CramCycle · 12-12-2025 05:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064957#Comment_124064957

It was implied earlier, but debris sitting in it is dangerous. The numerous manhole and drain covers you can't avoid as easily, are dangerous, regular cyclists know this, but for those who don't there are studies in US showing there are 3 times as many the rates of falls or punctures compared to not riding in cycle lanes (these do not include cycle super highways (London) or Greenways or similar, these are city based cycle lanes.

The UK Department for Transport reports there are28% more "surprise" ollisions where cycle lanes are invovled due to in the main, vehicles on the road being "surprised" as they turned/pulled in by someone in the lane. There are studies posted in other threads about a literal mental blindness as the cyclists are "excluded" from the main road, therefore they are not part of traffic.

The next is close passes due to cars with on road cycle paths feeling they no longer have to slow to a safe speed while overtaking leading to faster close passing, as well greater risk of doorings for those that pass in a car doors swing radius (there is a study from Portland showing this), although again, many of learn form others or the hard way to keep out at doors, not all cycle lanes allow this.

As a counter point, where cycle lanes are fully segregated, and proper junction controls are in place, deaths and serious injuries do significantly reduce but these are not (seen as) plausible in city centres like Dublin where the reduction in space for cars to achieve such lanes would effectively remove all on street parking and lanes of traffic but they could be safer, just not the way we do them (IIHS, and DfT London)

All of this can be verified through peer reviewed studies and government reports from multiple places, Walker 2007, San Francisco Collisions report, league of American Bicyclists, Cicchino 2020, Insurance Institute for Highway Safety have commissioned multiple reports from universities in the US, the Highway Loss Data Institute. Alas our own RSA have high level figures but sadly don't delve enough into the nitty gritty. I can give you the figures but other than they are mainly in broad daylight, mainly at commuter times and mainly in cities, you will have to make your own assumptions. Sadly over the last few years I somehow, as many forum users will, know some of those who have died. While I thankfully do not know the details in detail. Two I know of were on roads with cycle lanes and both were using them. Two I don't know in adjacent parts of south Dublin, also both commuting, were in cycle lanes. Either way, you are probably right, it is not the cycle lane but driver observation, but data implies that, like it or not, the cycle lanes we build in a lot of places, are not fit for purpose.

smacl · 12-12-2025 05:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124065046#Comment_124065046

Funny enough, for that route I actually find that cycle lane ok even though you've got this bizarre bit where it diverges that absolutely cannot accommodate cars and bikes at the same time. The ones I really have a problem with are those that leave you on the inside of a left turn only lane, particularly those at roundabouts if you're taking the last exit. Road designers seem to have a problem with cyclists not being to the left of all lines of traffic, even where that traffic is turning left and the cyclists are going straight on.

07Lapierre · 12-12-2025 06:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124065137#Comment_124065137

Fair point. I tend not to use cycle lanes like that either. None of the cycle lanes you or i have linked to are safe in some shape or form for adult cyclists, never mind young or inexperienced cyclists.

magicbastarder · 12-12-2025 06:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064957#Comment_124064957

you keep making these sweeping statements - trying to explain cycling safety issues to a bunch of seasoned (and presumably conscientious) cyclists - and making seeming statements of fact that appear to be no more than poorly thought out assumptions. (e.g. the reason you gave why they can't force cyclists to use cycle lanes, which i will call 'novel' for now).

the main problem i see with your statement above is that cycle lanes (certainly in ireland) do not exist independent of roads, and crucially have to interact with them at junctions. there's no point in claiming a cycling lane makes cycling safer if you ignore the issue that they can make junctions more dangerous. and it's junctions where the main danger is.

i fully expected to be posting the following example with a 'thankfully, they have since fixed it' caveat, but it seems they have not.

this is the approach into donnybrook on the N11 from the south. there are several issues. cyclists, while they are in the cycle lane, are probably safer than they would be on the road. but; cyclists in the cycle lane are less likely to be on the mental radar of motorists (as Cram mentioned above) than cyclists in the road. this is further exacerbated here by the placement of the bus shelter and railing just before the cycle lane ends, further reducing the chances of the cyclist being on the mental radar of drivers. approx 20 or 25m after the bus shelter, the cycle lane drops the cyclists (the majority of whom will be proceeding straight through the junction) to road level on the left hand side of left turning traffic, and many of those vehicles will be buses (that's one of dubin bus's main bus depots behind that wall).

so for an unknown number of motorists, but mainly ones unfamiliar with that junction, they'll find a cyclist appearing at road level on their left just as they are beginning to prepare to turn left themselves. i haven't cycled through this junction in years, but i always took the road on the (thankfully few) occasions i did.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3184711,-6.2311262,3a,75y,298.49h,84.88t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syfOZLDA9i7xEgFLXfXdiQg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D5.1230254356702005%26panoid%3DyfOZLDA9i7xEgFLXfXdiQg%26yaw%3D298.4858145781131!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

CramCycle · 12-12-2025 10:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124065247#Comment_124065247

Before I finished your post I knew where you meant. I worked around there for years. I would move into the bus lane at the turn into the estate before, and if blocked, at the Teresian school. The bus stop alone is a mess, forget the issues you have highlighted.

I posted years ago about the awesomeness of a Dad on this stretch. They were cycling to school together and he took the kid out of the bike lane before the Teresian school to prepare for the junction.

That junction, providing a narrow switchback to non pro cyclists is crazy only 50m before.

MojoMaker · 13-12-2025 08:43PM

I'm not sure Red Silurian cycles to be honest.

Owning a bike does not a cyclist make.

Seth Brundle · 13-12-2025 08:46PM

I'm not sure Red Silurian cycles to be honest.

MojoMaker · 13-12-2025 08:49PM

Well he claims to, but I'm sensing a spurious claim at the same time.

standardg60 · 13-12-2025 10:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064179#Comment_124064179

Thoroughly agree with all of that, apart from not being equivalent. Arguing that possible consequences of not following the rules are more applicable to some road users is a double standard approach and is what leads to division and antagonism. Everyone should be adhering to the rules and if everyone actually did I think cyclists (and the cycling forum) would gain more respect from the motorist community.

I ignore most cycle lanes for the reasons eloquently given by yourself and others, and my now new response to motorists who ask why I'm not in one will be 'so you can see me'. The least I can do in return for being 'traffic' is to comply with the same rules they do.

All that said the standard of simple observation and concentration of and on other road users here is nothing more than atrocious by a large proportion of motorists. The fact that this is continually excused by the courts and the state is disgraceful.

For a start instead of focusing on vulnerable road users making themselves more 'visible' when the actual focus should be on motorists more 'looking'.

khamilton · 14-12-2025 02:20AM

apart from not being equivalent.

It's been explained to you in great detail. It's literally in the dictionary definition of the word. Still you dig your heels in. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/equivalent

Arguing that possible consequences of not following the rules are more applicable to some road users is a double standard approach

It's not a double standard. To repeat myself, throwing a cigarette butt on the ground and stamping it out & dumping a vanload of industrial waste in a forest are both littering. They are not in any way equivalent, and no reasonable person would say "we think Gardai should spend the same amount of resources on both". They are both the same crime

Yet here you are.

and is what leads to division and antagonism.

What leads to 'division and antagonism' is car brain. Being expected to follow the rules of the road and laws as a driver should not lead to 'division and antagonism' just because you see others breaking laws that you yourself break at a greater rate, and with much more serious consequences.

That's indisputable, the cognitive dissonance and biases displayed by drivers in general is now (thankfully) scientific fact even if some people, yourself clearly included, like to instead pretend that drivers are 'rational people who are (rightfully) railing at the double standards cyclists apply!!'

Everyone should be adhering to the rules

There are no rules people will always adhere to. There are some rules that almost no-one adheres to. it's a pointless comment.

if everyone actually did I think cyclists (and the cycling forum) would gain more respect from the motorist community.

Utter nonsense. Drivers see other drivers breaking red lights and don't blink twice. They see other drivers driving at night with no lights on and don't blink twice. They see drivers driving 'dark coloured' vehicles and don't blink twice. They see a cyclist doing any of those things and they magically spot the seemingly invisible cyclists and start protesting that 'virtually every cyclist' is doing X, Y, Z.

BP_RS3813 · 14-12-2025 07:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124068535#Comment_124068535

Re: Your last paragrapgh

Was dropping a friend off somewhere last night at 8 PM or so - there was a car crawling along at maybe 20 Kph? The three cars ahead of me didn't beap, didn't rush to overtake and were quite careful.

Whenever I cycle to work: my commute is 10.5k and I avg 22-23kph with holding 30-35 on the flat/when is there no stop starting.

The amount of times people beep me, close pass or say something along the lines of 'get off the road your going too slow its dangerous' is abhorrent and yet when a car does the same speed there is no such reaction.

I'd wager most motorists commuting are not cyclists as they don't seem to care about the double standards they apply every day. Broken lights? No issue - I don't have my rear red light on? I get screamed at - was also screamed at for it being too bright too! (750 lumens - flashes regularly and also functions as a break light).

MojoMaker · 14-12-2025 11:36AM

Absolutely brother.

hans aus dtschl · 15-12-2025 10:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064957#Comment_124064957

You started out on December 11th with "That's a lot of cyclists not using their dedicated cycle lane, I wonder why that is?". You then had multiple people (not me!) explain to you "why that is"… and yet you keep repeating the same strange belief that the cycle lanes are inherently more safe! To paraphrase someone earlier in this thread "I wonder why that is?"

At this point you're clearly being disingenuous.

Listen, your "Just Asking Questions" posting style is fine until it becomes "Just Repeating Questions Which Have Been Answered" at which point it "Just Looks Silly".

magicbastarder · 15-12-2025 11:19AM

regarding the example i gave above (in donnybrook), you could make some weak argument that that's a very old design but we do it better now. but the below is a junction i'm quite familiar with - and it's about three and a half years old in its current configuration. again, we're designed off road bike lanes which drop cyclists into junctions on the left hand side of left turning traffic. you'd get quite a few HGVs on this road too. i've been beeped at (thankfully, only very rarely) for not using the cycle lane here; the cycle lanes went in as part of the work of building the warehouses you can see if you spin the camera to face the other way up that road.

https://www.google.com/maps/.4234242,-6.3255712,3a,75y,218.41h,71.2t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sVata9412nzBfpXgR-gSsYw!2e0!5s20221001T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D18.804878148229847%26panoid%3DVata9412nzBfpXgR-gSsYw%26yaw%3D218.40552414502156!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Macy0161 · 15-12-2025 11:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124065834#Comment_124065834

The N11 is really a prime example of what only motorists think is a "perfectly good" cycle lane. Multiple dumping you in dangerous positions and ceeding priority, still Fosters Avenue junction, and it is a complete mess the whole way down from Nutley Lane to Donnybrook. Ridiculous weaving on and off the pavement, in front of and behind bus stops, ceeding priority, the aforementioned bus stop chicane, and then dump you in a dangerous position. It's actually shorter route for me into town, but Rock Road for it's faults is miles better. When I was the Harrys end of Beaver Row, I'd go through UCD rather than that section.

smacl · 15-12-2025 11:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064957#Comment_124064957

You've already had it explained to you multiple times by multiple posters here that this simply is not always the case and in many times is downright dangerous. Taking the lane is by far the safer option in many circumstances, decent article on this from the Guardian here https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2011/aug/01/cyclist-take-the-lane However much it irks some more ignorant motorists, it is safer to hold up following traffic at those times where letting a car or truck past would put the cyclist at risk. This is unfortunately often the case with many cycle lanes in this country.

Your ongoing assertions at this point can no longer be put down to ignorance given the patience folks here have shown with in-depth responses. Maybe to time to re-evaluate what you thought you knew.

RobertFoster · 15-12-2025 11:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124071104#Comment_124071104

The at symbol confuses Vanilla/boards into thinking you want to ping another user. The short URL you get from the share button on Maps might work better: https://maps.app.goo.gl/yKokLiXayAvK2VKK9

JMcL · 15-12-2025 11:48AM

For another example of deficient "cycle lanes", I present the Waterford ring road which, though not obvious from the grab is an 80km/h dual carriageway. The footpath on the left is actually shared use path which Waterford CoCo couldn't even be bothered to paint lines on, so if you were to be good and use the "cycle lane", to got straight on, you'd have to stop to cross just below where the white car is on the left, cross to the island with the yellow bollard(all ~2m of it) trying to avoid getting left hooked by drivers turning left as they have zero awareness, or t-boned by speeding, unsighted, right turners coming off the roundabout with the forest. If you get that far alive, you then have to do the same again before rejoining the "cycle path", rinse and repeat at the other 7 or 8 junctions. If you want to turn right, you do all the above and THEN have to do the same thing across the dual carriageway.

It's much safer to take the approriate lane, making sure do so properly so that some entitled numpty doesn't try to squeeze past. This of course only works if you have the nerve to do this and is a barrier to people making more use of it.

Seth Brundle · 15-12-2025 11:50AM

I've similar crap infrastructure near me which is as new as it gets. Along the R148 at Leixlip's Louisa Bridge, the cycle path leaves the road and it becomes a shared footpath & cycle path right outside a busy train station (Google maps/Streetview hasn't been updated to show this). In addition, the RHS of the pathway contains several traffic light and signage poles creation friction points. To top it off, about six months ago, the council or Irish Rail placed barriers on the path due to bridge deterioration issues further reducing the overall width by maybe 40cm. If I'm on a bike travelling at 30km/h, why would I choose to leave the road in order to follow the cycle lane which means I'm quite likely to be involved in a collision unless I slow to a walking pace.

Along the section outside Intel, they've tried to make it a segregated cycle lane with a surface & height difference form the footpath. However, the ramps to join the cycle lane at the junction have traffic light poles meaning that you must slow down to access them.
The end of the cycle lane (if travelling towards Maynooth) ends fairly suddenly and you're dumped back out on the road. There is no advance warning to people driving that the cycle lane ends. Cyclists don't merge - they must wait until it is safe to move out - it is the usual sloppy design that wasn't designed to benefit someone on a bike…

Clearly, everything good on the plans for those projects but they had not been reviewed by someone who actually cycles - someone who could predict that the obvious danger would ensure that those cycle lanes won't be utilised to their fullest extent.

If I want to make progress on a bike, I don't want any unnecessary slowing down and then having to rebuild momentum. If I stay on the road, I don't lose that momentum. In addition, the cycle lanes all require me to stop at junctions, press a button and wait. For whatever reason, you've to wait while the lights change for all other traffic before they give the cycle lane a green. The net result of this is that you can spend a large portion of a journey just waiting to cross a few junctions (and when I do rejoin the cycle lane, I've to avoid the metal poles placed strategically to make sure that the are positioned only to suit people on the road.

Red Silurian · 15-12-2025 10:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124071124#Comment_124071124

Patience is a bit of a strong word to use on the reactions but I take your point

hans aus dtschl · 15-12-2025 11:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124072980#Comment_124072980

Hey, welcome back. I have two quick questions:

A few posters had already replied to you explaining various reasons people choose to cycle on the road explicitly for their own safety when you continued to describe it as "potentially dangerous". Could you possibly explain why you wrote that?

I then asked you the above question and you replied with the below (rather defiant!) response, which apparently showed you had disregarded each of the replies you had got:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064957#Comment_124064957

A handful more people subsequently took the time to reply to you with the same answers again, in various different formats such as linked newspaper articles.

And you now write that you feel that patience was "a bit of a strong [sp] word to use on the reactions".

So my main question is: at any point on this thread have you posted anything that wasn't fully disingenuous?

magicbastarder · 15-12-2025 11:42PM

i suspect that's Red Silurian's way of conceding but trying to get one last defiant dig in.

tnegun · 15-12-2025 11:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124071181#Comment_124071181

Here's the cycle path at the train station in Leixlip, Seth mentioned, fresh from this morning. I should join the road and avoid it, but it was quiet this morning so I stayed on the path, and I think the video shows exactly the issues with it, a bonus obstacle at the end! https://streamable.com/mm8bzq The same genius must have designed the new lanes in Maynooth too, several chicanes around street furniture and plenty of sign poles and lamp posts in the lanes.

Meanwhile on the Roads...

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