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Meanwhile on the Roads...

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,039 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Fair point… Good to see somebody on here has the respect to answer a question without resorting to primary school playground politics so thanks for that at least



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,039 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    You couldn't be further from the truth, but you probably don't care about the truth



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Speaking of primary school, is there a reason why you're refusing to answer a question on a sub-topic that YOU yourself raised in this thread :

    I have to ask YET AGAIN one more time, what actual written rules (enforceable Statute laws, not something made up in your head) do you think should be enforced on walkers / runners, which are currently not being enforced?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you often wonder about the major issues that lead to such situations, like drivers choosing to drive instead of cycling or using public transport, drivers speeding, drivers using their phones, drink and drug driving, or is it just the lane choices of cyclists that you wonder about?



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 28,713 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,777 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,777 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Quite sadly, many of the deaths in the Dublin area last year were from people using cycling lanes because traffic in the adjacent lane seems to have a block on it being a traffic lane.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,777 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    It was answered repeatedly and plainly by many users. yes, one did overreact and I am sure a moderator will be along shortly to issue a first warning to everyone to settle down but I am just correcting you, several people gave reasons, aside from the fact there is no legal impetus to use them, and that is quite obvious to most commuters, they are turning right at the next junction. They could also have been overtaking other cyclists (they weren't ) or they could have been in the bike box for safety rather than on the left of turning traffic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,533 ✭✭✭07Lapierre




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    On a bus for what seems like days - yellow boxes are a waste of paint. But cyclists not using cycle lanes...



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  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 28,713 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal



    It's easy pick on the vulnerable road users and ignore all the law breaking motorists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,589 ✭✭✭standardg60


    But that's just creating a scenario to suit a narrative, should the guard stop a car rolling through a junction in heavy traffic on amber/red, which is generally the case, not that i'm defending it, or the cyclist barrelling through a pedestrian crossing?. To bring it full circle, if it's ok for a cyclist to break a red light if safe to do so why shouldn't that apply to motorists too?

    On comparison with other countries and how it works there the big difference is the citizens actually obey the laws and rules and the authorities actually enforce them, fat chance of either happening here.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Would you have any questions for this Audi driver, choosing to drive their oversized tank mostly on the footpath, within inches of a pedestrian on that footpath, because a queue of eight or ten cars was just too much for the poor cratur?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,115 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Just casually using a weapon in broad daylight



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,039 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I don't see any tank but yes that Audi driver is acting the maggot. What does that have to do with my post though?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,039 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Not really, it was answered once and I thanked the poster for the answer accordingly

    Throwing a question in to a forum like why do we think cyclists aren't in a cycle lane is clearly seen as an attack on all cyclists by some people.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you ever wonder about drivers like that when you see dangerous drivers like this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,589 ✭✭✭standardg60


    We all do, why are you asking that particular poster?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,589 ✭✭✭standardg60


    An advertising campaign by the RSA advising motorists that cyclists don't actually have to use cycle lanes is badly needed. But instead we have millions spent on political waffle like vision zero which is never going to happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,039 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Do I think a driver acting the maggot is a driver acting the maggot? I'll get back to you with that answer…

    I'm fully aware they don't have to use them I was asking why people thought they weren't



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,533 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    I hope this helps:

    Common Reasons Cyclists in Ireland Opt for Roads Over Cycle Lanes:

    Cyclists in Ireland are not legally required to use cycle lanes (except for mandatory contra-flow lanes on one-way streets), a rule change implemented in 2018 to prioritize safety over poor infrastructure. This flexibility stems from widespread issues with cycle lanes, which are often criticized as inadequate, unsafe, or impractical. Based on discussions from cyclists, road safety experts, and advocacy groups, here are the primary reasons many choose the road instead:

    1. Poor Maintenance and Hazards Cycle lanes frequently suffer from potholes, broken glass, debris, and uneven surfaces, increasing the risk of punctures or crashes. For instance, one cyclist noted they're "much less likely to get a puncture on the roads than the cycle lane." These conditions make lanes unusable, especially in wet or icy weather when grip is already compromised.

    2. Obstructions and Encroachments Lanes are often blocked by parked cars, buses stopping at bus stops, or construction works, forcing cyclists to merge unpredictably with traffic. Advocacy site IrishCycle.com documents over 25 such scenarios, including drivers parking illegally without enforcement, turning lanes into "death traps." In Northern Ireland, similar issues lead to campaigns against motorists treating cycle lanes as parking spots.

    3. Design Flaws and Inconvenience Many lanes are too narrow for safe passage or overtaking, end abruptly, or force frequent stops at junctions/side roads, disrupting momentum and right-of-way. Cyclists report needing to "give way frequently," which is energy-intensive and slower than staying on the road. Shared paths with pedestrians or joggers add unpredictability, while lanes beside parked cars heighten "dooring" risks (drivers opening doors into cyclists).

    4. Lack of Connectivity and Network Gaps Ireland's cycle infrastructure is fragmented—lanes start and stop sporadically, making point-to-point travel inefficient. Cyclists often find it "quicker to get from A to B on a road rather than random cycle lanes which are not connected." This is exacerbated in urban areas like Dublin, where planning prioritizes cars, leading to "weaving" through traffic or pinch points.

    5. Perceived or Actual Safety Risks While roads involve close passes from vehicles, many cyclists feel lanes expose them to worse dangers like hidden hazards or sudden merges. A Reddit poll highlighted "danger and fear of mixing with motorists" as a barrier to cycling altogether, but poor lanes amplify this by funneling cyclists into vulnerable spots. Experts recommend "taking the lane" (positioning centrally in the road) for better visibility and safer overtakes.

    Reason Category

    Examples from Irish Context

    Impact on Cyclists

    Maintenance Issues

    Potholes, glass, debris

    Higher puncture/crash risk; slower speeds

    Obstructions

    Parked cars, bus stops, works

    Forced merges; "dooring" hazards

    Design Problems

    Narrow, abrupt ends, frequent stops

    Energy loss; unsafe overtakes

    Connectivity

    Disconnected networks

    Inefficient routing; time delays

    Safety Perception

    Unpredictable shared paths

    Increased vulnerability vs. road visibility

    These issues reflect broader critiques of Irish cycling infrastructure, often described as "murderous" or "useless" due to lax standards and enforcement. Advocacy groups like Cycling Ireland and I Bike Dublin push for segregated, continuous networks modeled on Dutch "cycle streets," where cyclists have priority. Until then, many cyclists view roads as the safer, more practical option—exercising their legal right to the full carriageway while minimizing personal risk. If infrastructure improves, usage could rise, but current designs deter even experienced riders.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,777 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    @Red Silurian answered multiple times, these are just mine but others pointed out, that even though you don't like it, they are not legally obliged and therefore unless causing a danger to themselves or others, they don't have too. Someone else also answered it is often due to the danger that using a cycling lane can put you in, in fact, sadly, as pointed out before, many of the cyclists who have passed away in Dublin were in fact using cycle lanes.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,777 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    In that scenario, both are creating a danger, and if as described, go after the cyclist. Again though, my representation is what I see on a day to day basis. Yes some cyclists barrel through but they are in the minority. On a same note, do I think a Garda should be waiting in the suburbs of D4 or D14 looking for a taxi to slow roll a red at 6am with no one out and about, no, I don't think that should be a priority, I think they should be targeting those who speed up through a red, or barrel through estates on a rat run or are jumping lights at 80kmph when traffic is light, those who roll through and block yellow boxes causing traffic delays and potentially block emergency vehicles. I'd certainly have no issue fining those people on yellow boxes for contributory negligence when a Fire Brigade or Ambulance is delayed, why I would be a big fan of yellow box cameras as well.

    Are these all illegal, yes, are they all equivalent, no. This Broken Glass mentality has been proven to be a mistake, it is far better to go for the truly dangerous offences and offenders above all others. If a Garda pulls over a motorist for speeding through a red, should they drop that to go after your example of a slow roll through an amber. No. Should they go after it if there is nothing else going on, absolutely. The same with cyclists. Some courier blasts through a red and while fining him, a parent and child slow roll through a pedestrian crossing. Should he go after the latter, no, but if they aren't doing anything else, yes, the Garda should pull them over for a word and say, listen, I know it does not appear dangerous but your kid may think that running lights on a bike is OK. For their sake, either wait or dismount and cross on foot.

    I do agree with your last point though, I wouldn't trust our nation of commuters to not take a mile when given an inch, and until we as a nation change, then I would be against changing the rules, but I would be in favour of more gardai on the street, red light cameras on every light.

    The latter in particular will eventually help improve traffic flow more than anything TII has done for the past 15 years. Couple this with increasing starting wages for bus drivers to increase uptake in cities along with the now empty yellow boxes. The Gardai would then have the time to look at the very small number of dangerous cyclists.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not sure at all that we all do, given the extent and frequency of drivers driving on footpaths to park.

    But you don't have the same deep thirst for knowledge about why drivers do illegal stuff like this as you do when it comes to cyclists legally cycling on the road?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,777 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Answer given before already though are, and not limited too:

    1. They are turning right at the next junction
    2. They are travelling faster than the cyclists in the lane (not in this case but it is a reason)
    3. They are using the forward bicycle box to be more visible traffic and it is not safe to merge back in instantly with all the other cyclists there
    4. There is a large amount of debris and drain covers that make usage dangerous
    5. Regular cyclists now that while in the cycle lane they are often, unintentionally, forgotten about as many drivers don't recognise it as a driving lane leading to left hooks (this has killed many cyclists over the years)
    6. There is no legal impetus to do so, so they don't. Not a reason some people like but it is a reason, I suspect that this one encompasses many of the reasons above. I would use a cycle lane, and do in some cases, where the above criteria is not likely to affect me. A good example is the N11 stretches south of Cabinteely, albeit I usually bunny hop out about 50m before the few turns as cars do speed in to the curved lefts and never notice cyclists.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,039 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    But you don't have the same deep thirst for knowledge about why drivers do illegal stuff like this as you do when it comes to cyclists legally cycling on the road?

    You've partly answered the question yourself… Because what the car is doing is illegal, dangerous to other road/footpath users and a bit of a prick of a thing to do. You can also understand that the car driver probably wants to save those 3 seconds on his morning commute regardless of the risks involved. There is no real question to raise as to why the car driver did that manoeuvre.

    On the other hand what the cyclists are doing is not illegal and potentially only dangerous to themselves so yeah I was interested to hear some reasoning as to why it was happening.

    Have I explained it to you in simple enough terms for you to understand yet?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Was it not simple enough for you to have a little think about the cyclists and work out the various reasons they might have for not using the lane you want them to use?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭oinkely


    On the topic of not using cycle lanes when they are provided - I recall one incident when i was cycling to college in UCD (around 1999) heading along the stillorgan road towards the junction with Fosters Avenue. i was in the bus lane because the cycle lane at the time was a disaster (might still be the same!) - painted on the footpath in front of the driveways that all open out onto the stillorgan road, up and down the dished bits like a rollercoaster and constantly on the lookout for cars pulling out of driveways to bring you to a sudden stop, dodging the clusters of people at the bus stops etc. I always used the bus lane there - felt much safer and faster than the cycle lane. Anyway - guarda car rolls up beside me at the traffic lights (at which i was stopped for the record ;-)) and the fella in the passenger seat rolls down the window and tells me to get into the cyle lane, as i was holding up the flow of traffic. I politely explained that the bike lane was a shyte design and it was safer (IMO) to use the bus lane. he insisted that i was in the wrong and was to get in the bike lane immediately to let the traffic flow better. When i put it to him that he was putting my safety below traffic flow, and i was in fact part of the traffic, he rolled up his window and drove off. Doesn't really add anything to the debate - but shows that we are at last 30 years building shyte cycle lanes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭khamilton


    No, it's not seen as an attack on all cyclists.


    What it is is that people are used to your posting style, where you post like a provacateur despite the fact you should know better, and then retreat into "but I was just asking questions!!!" narrative when called on it.

    Don't pretend you're not frequently guilty of it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭Steoller


    On a slightly related note, I've found the 'ignore' button on a user's profile to be of great relief in some forums.



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