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Orange is the new Burke

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,248 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    "by all accounts"…Right yeah. I have seen enough of his law breaking antics and mindless rants to know he was not a good teacher. He is not a good person. He has a very flawed character and is easily influenced. Was anyone listening to the crap he was telling children in the classroom? I don't hear many parents calling for his reinstatement. The man and his loony family are clearly unhinged. They cannot follow simple due process. They are attention seekers. He could be freed from prison tomorrow if he agreed to stop acting the complete eejit at the school gates. But no, he wants to waste his already pathetic life. I repeat that I would not let the creep alone with children again. Religious fanatics have done far too much damage to children in this country. He is utterly unhinged.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Judgment (No. 3) of Mr. Justice Cregan delivered on the 9th day of December, 2025 in the High Court in the case of The Board of Management of Wilson’s Hospital School (Plaintiff) and Enoch Burke (Defendant)

    https://ww2.courts.ie/acc/alfresco/1e3fe7c8-aba7-4912-b816-263a7a2f6ada/2025_IEHC_711.pdf/pdf#view=fitH 

    Here it is in Cregan J’s own words, rather than the newspapers' interpretation or abridgement. Again a relatively easy read in which he deals with 

    • His use of the words “baleful” and “malign” and “roaming” and “stalking” 
    • The finding that pupils and teachers of the school ‘have indicated in their affidavits’ that Burke is a potential to danger to them
    • Burke’s submission that statements in the original judgement amounted to character assassination (a delightful rebuttal, quoted below)
    • Burke’s allegation that the original judgment was an abuse of power
    • Contempt of Court
    • The Assault on Truth ("One of the most disturbing aspects about this case is the amount of lies being told by Mr. Burke about this matter")
    • The Rule of Law 
    • Abuse of Process
    • Conclusions

    Far from rowing back or climbing down, Cregan J has set out in the clearest possible terms his reasoning and the appropriateness of his choice of words, and gone on to confront Burke’s “nonsense”, “lies”, Contempt of Court, Assault on Truth, lack of concern for the Rule of Law and Abuse of Process. Rather than simply ignoring Burke’s delusional witterings and appalling behaviour as some of his peers did, Cregan J confronts them head on. And as with his previous judgements it would appear that Cregan J has put a lot of time and effort into eviscerating Burke’s complaints and contentions. His three judgements, unless challenged and found wanting in the COA or Supreme Court, will serve as a point of reference for judges in any future Burke related cases. 

    I thought that the rebuttal of the allegation by Burke of character assassination was particularly good:

    36. Mr. Burke submitted that my statements in paragraph 158 amounted to character assassination. Character is revealed by both actions and words. This then, is Mr. Burke from a review of his actions and words: a teacher who verbally berates a bishop during a religious service; a teacher who berates the principal after the school service, in front of pupils, teachers, and parents; a teacher who has been dismissed for gross misconduct; a man who trespasses upon school property when the school does not want him there; a man who breaches court orders directing him not to trespass on school property; a teacher who would rather that the school pay money for security guards to keep him out rather than pay €1,000 a week on the needs of its pupils; a man who is prepared to sacrifice the pupils of the school for his cause; a man who prefers a strategy of confrontation rather than one of dialogue and compromise; a man who exhibits an abnormal degree of verbal aggression and disrespect; a man who lacks insight into the inappropriateness of his behaviour; a man who verbally abuses all judges before whom he appears; a man who lies on affidavit, a man who lies to security guards, and a man who lies on every social media post which he puts up online about the reasons why he is prison. Mr. Burke has assassinated his own character by his deeds and words. I have simply described what the evidence has shown.

    some other nuggets:

    38. Mr Burke has been committed to prison for ongoing and flagrant breaches of a court order. There is no reason why he should be released every few months to take a holiday from Mountjoy Prison. No other person who is committed to prison for breach of a court order is afforded a similar privilege. When viewed in this light, it is clear that, in fact, Mr Burke has been afforded special privileges by the court, when these privileges have neither been warranted nor earned. No doubt, judges of the High Court thought that he might reflect on his actions over these holidays and not return to school. But Mr. Burke abused this freedom by continuing to trespass.

    40. I am also of the view that the school should not have to await with fear and trepidation, over the Christmas holiday, to see whether Mr Burke intends to trespass on the school on the first day of the new term, if Mr. Burke were released. That is very disconcerting for the school. The school should be allowed to prepare for the new term starting in January in the sure and confident knowledge that Mr Burke will not be appearing at the school.

    48. Yet in statement after statement to this court, and elsewhere, Mr. Burke says that he is in prison because of his opposition to transgender rights. He knows these statements are lies. Yet he continues to make them.

    49. Mr. Burke seems to be trying to inhabit a reality of his own, with his own “Alice in Wonderland” language, where words mean what he says they mean, where his lies are the truth, and everything everyone else says are lies. This court is concerned with what are, objectively speaking, the facts and truth of the situation.

    50. There may well be good arguments as to why teachers should not be compelled to call pupils by the pronouns “they/them”; there may also be good reasons as to why they should. This case raises important questions about freedom of religion, and freedom of speech. The courts exist precisely to deal with these clashes of constitutional rights so that they are resolved through the legal process, and not through violence. However, in order that this clash of constitutional rights is considered by impartial courts, it is necessary that the Rule of Law is maintained and that court orders are obeyed.

    55. When I first heard this matter, I assumed that Mr. Burke was engaged in a bona fide defence of a legal case. The more this case has gone on, the more I have come to realise that Mr. Burke is not interested in defending this legal case at all. He (and other members of his family) have sought to disrupt and undermine every hearing at which they have attended; they have engaged in repeated verbal abuse of whatever judge is hearing that particular application; he has refused repeatedly to accept court rulings; he (and members of his family) have been dragged kicking and screaming from the Court of Appeal, preventing the court from delivering its judgment and resulting in a criminal conviction of Mr. Sean Burke for assaulting a female garda officer. He is using the courts to pursue his political campaign against transgenderism. He is perfectly entitled to fight that campaign in the public and political arena; the courts however are not the appropriate place to do so. Mr. Burke’s conduct of this case is simply an abuse of process.

    I’ll stop before I repost the judgement in it’s entirety. If you have 10 mins to spare please read the entire judgement. It is only 15 pages and it is clear, concise and easily digested and will clear up any lingering doubts about the merits of Burke's assertions and allegations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,217 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Almost impossible to find his actual teaching videos as all searches just return his court appearances.

    But at some stage there were videos out there of his on-line teaching (presumably during Covid) and he was actually in my opinion very good. Articulate, well-paced, friendly, and very good at getting his knowledge/lessons across in an accessible way.

    Unfortunately there is far more to teaching than just the above, and he has clearly failed terribly at the other aspects of the job. In many ways it's a shame, but ultimately it is all on him, and attempts to put the blame on the system/courts/principal/child are disgusting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 931 ✭✭✭French Toast


    I find Cregan’s no-nonsense approach to be hugely satisfying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,346 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    As EB dragged the civil law courts into the dispute and made the issue he has with WHS & the Employment appeals board very public, it's not a private matter. He's in prison for defying a court order. That alone is public news.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,483 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    He’s not “unhinged” just because you think so and don’t like his family.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 876 ✭✭✭HazeDoll


    And he's not a great teacher just because you agree with his views.

    There is ample evidence in videos and court reporting to support the assertions that he is not functioning normally and his family are bigoted religious zealots. Do you have any evidence to support your assertions on his teaching and your suggestion that this is all a giant messy conspiracy to bring him down?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,421 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    He's unhinged because of all the unhinged things he has done and said over the past three years. Pretty easy to see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 278 ✭✭goldsparkle


    The man is delusional due to his behaviour of consisently misrepresenting this situation and this legal stuff. Delusion can be a symptom of different mental health and personality disorders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,248 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Oh yes he is. I know so. His whole family are unhinged. They have all been home schooled and cannot accept authority.

    The Burkes are absolutely hated in my alma mater, UCG. They have caused so much strife and cost in a respected educational institution.

    Saying Enoch is unhinged is actually putting it mildly. There is nothing normal about his behaviour.

    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,204 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    I had to look up the meaning of unhinged, "wildly irrational and out of touch with reality.", the fact that he and his family cannot understand or follow simple instructions and understand what is happening make them out of touch with reality. So by definition they are all unhinged.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,483 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    so a subjective opinion then and not one grounded in any medical evidence

    Some might think made up prob nouns are unhinged. And forcing them on others- No doubt you’d disagree



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,389 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    I'd call that inclusivity. What is it with religion and LGBTQ anyway? Not like it's harming anyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 893 ✭✭✭Morris Garren


    Being 'different' to the so-called 'mob' is no guarantee of being reasonable, informed or rational though. Many decisions in the social realm hinge on the concept of 'reasonableness' - you could argue that Enoch should be canonised and revered as 'Saint Enoch the Brave' and you are free to promote such a view— utterly unreasonable, unlikely and frankly irrational based on any reflection upon his carry on.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Do you think it is normal rational behaviour to choose to be indefinitely imprisoned for something that has absolutely nothing to do with why you're actually being imprisoned? In what way is his behaviour not unhinged?

    Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/ .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭Westernview


    It's not often that I'd quote Joanna but if this is true, it's another example of the media misinterpreting court events. Unacceptable if not clarified and corrected.

    Screenshot_20251213_161505_X.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,999 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    This is the whole issue. People who are supporting Burke believe he has been jailed for refusing to call the child they/them.

    Hopefully he will be finally dismissed after today and might disappear but I doubt it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,421 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    It's by far the easiest argument for them to make in order to justify their own support for him due to their aligned beliefs regarding transgenderism, rather than acknowledging the guy is a loon who overreacted and has dug his heels in so far with his own behaviours to the point of being fined, jailed, and shown up for the unhinged dingbat that he is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭tinpib


    What worries me is in Judge Cregan's 50 page judgement on page 1, point number 3 it says

    "The case arises out of a dispute between the school and Mr. Burke in which Mr. Burke has been dismissed on the grounds of gross misconduct arising out of (1) his refusal to obey a direction of the school that a transgender pupil be addressed by the surname “they”
    and (2) because of his gross misconduct at a school religious service (and other events) and the manner in which he conducted his objection to transgenderism."

    I was shocked when I read this. I always believed it was purely down to point 2, his behaviour, as any mention of point 1 could potentially open a can of worms for the school.

    Am I missing something here?

    https://ww2.courts.ie/view/Judgments/1daa8032-2c7b-491b-9f00-b533c91b066f/798d4e4a-c7ad-434a-8e1f-4bd554442d5e/2025_IEHC_635.pdf/pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭adaminho


    Whilst I'm assuming the results of today won't be publicly disclosed I guess we'll hear from Martina however it turns out.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 893 ✭✭✭Morris Garren


    When will the white smoke emerge from Athlone??? Any updates?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,483 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    so what about the “inclusivity” of someone (like Enoch) who doesn’t agree? Are his views not equally as valid then?
    consenting adults can do what they like as long as the rest of us aren’t compelled to go along with it- I’ve never associated trans with LGB as they aren’t choices. Trans taken to its extreme can be hugely damaging physically (think endless operations and hormone therapy/blockers) and mentally- the long term effects of which we haven’t really seen yet. We see for example in people that have had so called “gender reassignment surgery “ that their bodies naturally try to heal the wounds of the self inflicted mutilation

    Mod - warned for breach of forum charter

    Post edited by Leg End Reject on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭Westernview


    There will always be people misinformed into believing things on social media but the national broadcaster should be getting things right. Either they made a mistake or have an agenda to misinform and possibly keep the debate going out of self interest. If its a mistake they should be made correct it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,423 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    id highly recommend the works of economist deirdre mccloskey, shes seem to be functioning just fine, and is very well respected in her field



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,389 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Enoch is free to believe anything he wants,he can preach those beliefs and worry all free to agree or disagree.

    I'd call that inclusive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,628 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Mod - @road_high, do not post in this thread again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Not when you are dealing with children and you're meant to be a role model in position of authority



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,346 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    The fact that without his prior objection to complying with an all staff notice from the Principal (issue 1), EB would not have approached the Principal at the later school event to argue with her to the extent that others at the event had to intervene and stop him berating the principal (issue 2) makes both (1) and (2) absolutely directly connected.

    As I understand it, the Principal had sought and got the approval of the school board about the change and her email to the school staff reference the notice on the use of pronouns where it came to addressing the pupil concerned.

    Trying to sidestep the connection is like trying to dance on the head of a pin, something not worthwhile.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,346 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Gareth O'Callaghan has an opinion-piece in today's Irish Examiner…

    image.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Thought provoking article. It's available here for those with poor eyesight…..:

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-41757839.html

    I really like the sentiment in the concluding paragraph:

    In any case, I’m often reminded that all we will ever be remembered for long after we’re dead is the impact we had on the people whose lives we connected with. Nothing else will matter. 

    Enoch and a number of his siblings have sacrificed so much, and you have to ask "what for?" Whose life is better off as a result of this effort and sacrifice ? Such a pathetically sad mess when you look at it.



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