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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It is only YOU who holds the state to the same standards as a paramilitary organisation.
    Stop deflecting and deal with the state's actions.

    Here they are only now owning up and compensating one of the families they killed a child of - 56 years ago

    Truth drips slowly from the British state.

    *Saying it also drips slowly from - enter country or organisation you wish to use to deflect here - does not excuse that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Of course everyone holds a state to higher standards than terrorists. That fact you do not expect terrorists to hold the same ethical standards as a state helps prove they are terrorists.

    You are wrong about the state only now owning up now and compensating the family of the boy killed during the rioting in the Divis flats in Belfast. It was reported the family got £250 compensation from the state before. (£250 in in the early seventies is the equivalent of about €5,900 today). If you think that is not much, some families of security forces killed only got £50 to £90 compensation at the time.

    Of course the family of Patrick Rooney will get more compensation now. Not sure if that will have a knock on effect for other victims of violence or not.

    Of coure the killing of the boy should not have happened, even if it was by a stray bullet / not intentional. It was for that reason things like plastic bullets and water cannon had to be invented, to protect the lives of security forces during rioting, petrol bombs etc.

    ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The boy would have been forgotten had it not been for the persistence of the family just as the Bloody Sunday families persisted.

    Fact is the British state resists accountability.

    That’s why supporting victims is important.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    If people were not outside throwing petrol bombs at the police, the little boy would still be alive.

    That is why I condemn ALL of those who act outside of the law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    As sick as it gets.

    Always looking to vindicate or excuse or handwave away.

    The Irish are made of strong stuff and will persist.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    or they could use the roi tactic ie refuse to allow enquiries into their wrongdoing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I’m not sure what they said. But the situation was definitely confused by eg IRA on the streets with sub machine guns during the riot. To paint it as a normal protest march like pro-Palestine outside Tescos would just be silly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Are you really being serious, suggesting Guards did not assist the IRA 🙈



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The problem was the licence the BA were given when on Irish soil.
    And Unionism is too wilfully arrogant to see that if it suits the British, Unionists will be treated the same and have been treated the same.

    Why? Because the British establishment don't give two hoots about you or your nationalist. republican, agnostic or otherwise neighbour.

    If you analyse what most of Bryson's activism and complaining is about, or stems from, it is that - the outworking's of British indifference and lack of care for loyal or disloyal Irish people however they identify.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The BA were on the soil of the United Kingdom, and were there to back up the police, two of whom (a protestant and a catholic) were ambushed in their car and killed by the pIRA in Derry literally three days before Bloody Sunday. During the riot on bloody Sunday, do you think these were just paper airplanes that were thrown at the security services?

    During a previous riot, the crowd parted for a gunman to fire shots, then closed up again. And Fr. Daly (later Bishop Daly) did testify he saw a Republican gunman on Bloody Sunday.

    And as regards your little rant about how the British establishment don't care if you are nationalist, republican, agnostic or unionist. That is the way it is supposed to be: they treat everyone equally. Ask anyone from Ireland who has served in their armed forces, along people from Scotland, Yorkshire, Cornwall, London, Wales and further afield: all treated equally. The fact that Britain sent so many people to keep the peace here / prevent civil war, and has sent and continues to send many billions of pounds each year, shows they do care. I fact, in the 20th century, minorities increased in numbers in the UK, unlike here in the 26 counties or whatever you like to call it.

    Post edited by Francis McM on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    PC shot dead responding to demonstration at the Libyan Embassy in London - next day or week the British Army (not the police) open up wantonly on a crowd of UK demonstrators and kill 14 and maim many others, then they cover it up and whitewash it for 40 or so years.

    Think that would happen in Great Britain?

    Of course it never would. You only do that where you don't care and where you know there will be no real consequences because your core electorate don't care all that much either.

    How many times Unionism needs that demonstrated to them is the question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    There were no fatalities at the vast majority of riots in N.Ireland, despite many petrol bombs etc being thrown at the security forces. Who knows exactly what happened in the confusion of the riot in Derry. In those days rubber bullets or water cannons had not yet been invented. The March should not have taken place and you know who, or another republican gunman, should not have sparked off the shooting.

    The paras were also the wrong people to use in crowd control. Lessons were learnt and similar mistakes not repeated in the hundreds of riots by Republicans since then.

    The debris on the ground looks more like a riot than your typical pro-Palestine or Pro-Libya demonstration to me, added to the fact other security forces had been killed at similar riots and in a car ambush 3 days earlier in Derry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There were no fatalities at the vast majority of riots in N.Ireland, despite many petrol bombs etc being thrown at the security forces

    I’m sure that comforts the many families affected by state and state sponsored violence.

    Didn’t read beyond your opening and familiar apologist nonsense tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    And do you think you and Michelle O'Neill saying there was "no alternative" to the pIRA campaign of violence comforts the many more families affected by paramilitary violence?

    At least I condemn wrong doing and people acting outside the law on all sides : you only condemn one side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    …and it's 'look over there rather than confront state and state sponsored violence head on.

    * if some of the many who killed people, killed when they knew they 'had an alternative' then that is inordinately a more damming criticism.
    I would hope anyone who kills, feels there is no alternative. It's sadist level stuff to be killing when you have a choice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    So you are calling the people behind the torture and murder of Jean McConville, the Le Mons restaurant bombing, the Guildford pub bombing, Enniskillen, Bloody Friday, Claudy, Kingsmill etc all sadists? Nobody was making them carry out those atrocities, and more than anyone was forcing the loyalist paramilitaries to carry out their atrocities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Did the various state actors who killed have an alternative Francis?

    There are many many instances where families claim the BA, UDR, RUC, B-Specials could have arrested people but chose to kill instead.

    If the soldiers who did that, had an alternative, but killed instead, what does that tell you?

    I long ago accepted that for many, they believed (doesn't matter what you or I believed) they were at war. Some, if not all the British, believed they were too. Not a conventional war, but war all the same.
    In any war, people do horrendous things. Fact of life tragically.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83 ✭✭Leinsterview


    I agree that the tricolour has acquired connotations far removed from the enlightened, inclusive worldview of its originators.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Every police force and security force around the world has made mistakes and killed people, our own here in the republic included.

    Anyway, stop diverting: back to the point, interesting now that you are calling the people behind the torture and murder of Jean McConville, the Le Mons restaurant bombing, the Guildford pub bombing, Enniskillen, Bloody Friday, Claudy, Kingsmill etc all sadists. Those were all planned, were all pre-meditated. And there was an alternative. All pre-meditated murders are wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Take the Union Jack.

    Has connotations when used as the flag of Loyalist supremacy, far right bootboys or little Englanders or as underpants and beach towels etc.

    Nobody would object to it though in it's rightful place as the flag of a country.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Underpants? Never saw Union Jack underpants, but few can have failed to notice the tricolour used as a balaclava. As you say, and I quote, "Nobody would object to it (union flag) though in it's rightful place as the flag of a country", then to be consistent that means you object to the Kneecap man wearing a tricolour balaclava. Or it it a case of you making rules for one side again but the rules do not apply to the other side?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


     Never saw Union Jack underpants,

    Google is your friend.


    As a mature adult, I can compartmentalise mis-use and give flags in their proper place the respect they deserve.

    I.E. Union Jack kaks etc don't diminish the integrity of the official flag of the UK.
    Diminishing the official Tricolour because somebody else mis-used it is juvenile and engaging in the same carry-on as the mis-user.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I could not be bothered googling to see if there is such a thing as union jack underpants. I have been to N.I., Scotland, Wales and England many times, including many times in shops there, and I have never seen any, and I have never seen any on the media / tv / newspapers etc either. I could not care less if they exist or not: you may be concerned about the colour of peoples underpants, I am not.

    To be consistent surely if you object to someone wearing union jack underpants (I do not know if anyone even done that in public), it means you object to the middle aged Kneecap man wearing a tricolour balaclava in public to taunt?

    (people waving flags in N.I. can be perceived as taunting).

    Or it it a case of you making rules for one side again but the rules do not apply to the other side?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    To be consistent surely if you object to someone wearing union jack underpants

    You are always making stuff up in order to wield your cudgel.

    I don't 'object' to UJ underpants…WHAT I SAID was that I am mature enough not to allow it colour my respect for the flag of a country used for official purposes.

    If you are mature about these things, and secure NOBODY can hijack a country's flag.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    That is not what you said and implied. You wrote: "Take the Union Jack. Has connotations when used as the flag of Loyalist supremacy, far right bootboys or little Englanders or as underpants and beach towels etc."

    You then wrote "Nobody would object to it though in it's rightful place as the flag of a country."

    Now, we do know you and many other Republicans (you are a follower of SF after all) do object to the Union Flag wherever you see it on the island of Ireland : some even call it the butchers apron, even though St. Patricks Saltire is incorporated in it to include N. Ireland.

    If you think some imaginary person wearing union jack underpants in private has connotations that some people would object to, then surely the man in Kneecap wearing a tricolour Balaclava to taunt has connotations that people would rightfully object to?

    Or it it a case of you making rules for one side again but the rules do not apply to the other side?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No, you are making stuff up again.
    I do not object to it

    'wherever you see it on the island of Ireland'

    Stop misrepresenting, it just further diminishes your credibility.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    When you say you do not object to ity, does that mean you would not mind it (a Union flag) being flown from government buildings in N.I. as often as say the tricolour is flown here from certain buildings ( 7 days a week)? In both jurisdictions, the flag would be the flag of the government / jurisdiction that pays social welfare, hospitals etc and collects taxes.

    Interesting you do not mind a Republican in a tricolour balaclava. If there was a Loyalist band called the Butchers and one of them wore a union flag type balaclava, would you shrug your shoulders and say "I do not object to it" as well?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What is it you are trying to achieve here Francis?

    Some sort of pathetic victory for belligerent Unionism?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Nothing to do with a pathetic victory for either belligerent Unionism or belligerent Republicanism, stop diverting.

    Just exposing your hypocracy yet again. As a supporter of S.F., you hate the Union Flag, and make a comment about it being the flag of Loyalist supremacy, far right bootboys or little Englanders or as underpants etc. Thats ok, it is a democracy and you can have whatever opinions you want. But then you see nothing wrong with the man from Kneecap using a tricolour balaclava.

    Yet another case of you making rules for one side but the rules do not apply to the other side.

    It just further diminishes your credibility.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,065 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Now digging a deeper hole.

    I don’t hate a flag.

    The UJ f has been the flag of all those things and more. Just like the US, or any flag including our own has been mis-used.

    I SAID that I am mature enough not to allow that affect my respect for the official use of a flag.

    That’s why, despite your mistruths, you will be unable to find any quote of me objecting to the official use of any countries flag.

    So stop misrepresenting other posters please.



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