Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Sorry, I missed this last week as was away for a few days.

On the piece about the penalties against the Munster scrum that day, I got that wrong. The source was one of those AI-style reports at the top of a search, but it isn't borne out in any of the recaps.

I would note though that comments from posters mid-game are still obviously a hugely relevant metric for assessing performance, and it is clear posters were critical of the Munster front row (and Loughman specifically) during that game. FWIW - Planet Rugby had Wilco Louw in their team of the week for that game week too.

Step back from it all though - the initial contention, in the context of a number of back and forth comments sharply critical of the Irish scrum, was that "Loughman is test level at scrummaging", something that simply isn't supportable. His supposed record against Wilco Louw is (i) extremely limited (one game), (ii) dated (hasn't faced him in over a year and a half) and (iii) at best he achieved parity.

Andrew Porter - the guy who was getting all the criticism - faced Wilco Louw as recently as June in a final and won multiple penalties against him.

Loughman's (and the Munster scrum more broadly) struggles against the Stormers on the weekend would actually suggest he is not test level as a scrummager.

Also; while we're there, you've brought up the Porter 6 penalties thing a few times now in this context. Here's the post at the time which quite clearly addresses that:

One of the 6 penalties in that game was for scrummaging (and he also won a scrum penalty in the same game), so I don't really get the context of it around the discussion of the referee's interpretations of the scrum in the South Africa game.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irfu-pays-1m-for-two-bed-home-beside-aviva-stadium-as-it-continues-to-expand-dublin-4-property-empire/a1488101374.html

Would think the IRFU policy is quite straight forward, they tried to negotiate collectively with residents but it all fell apart and left with gap at Havelock Sq end, they now have to pick them off, one by one.

IRFU have sought to buy up surronding residential properties for years with possibly a hotel in mind which would do well in that area regardless of sporting fixtures.

would he not develop more by playing more games for another province? Any argument to say that he will develop fine with Leinster training/coaches and with limited minutes doesn’t fly in my opinion but I understand some people do feel that way.

On a different tack would it not be more interesting for spectators to watch more head to heads with international places on the line?

FWIW - I still amn't hugely sold on Gus McCarthy's international prospects. I think he has the ability to be a very solid and serviceable player, but I don't see an elite player there, and I think if Stephen Smyth can sort his throwing he could surpass him and would expect Lee Fitzpatrick to in time.

He just lacks top end athleticism IMO.

He got his chance because of Leinster's dire injury situation at hooker at beginning of last season, and tbf he performed really well and then got the Irish chance because of a bigger injury crisis there, and equally did really well with the opportunities. He's clearly a guy who has a superb attitude and a good rugby IQ.

I still think John McKee is a better hooker than him right now if I'm being honest.

You said a few months back that a number of Leinster players should go up to Connacht, including Baird, as they weren't playing first team rugby at Leinster. Bealham, Aki and Hansen came to Connacht from Australia and NZ. Has a player ever moved from Leinster to Connacht and improved their career?

Lancaster is a good coach but up to this season Leinster have had a far better set of coaches than Connacht have. They also have a much better squad to train with week in week out. They play in more knockouts, play better teams in Europe, have the potential to win more trophies etc etc. McCarthy will progress just fine at Leinster and will be second choice hooker by the end of the season imo.

If my team is getting to semi finals/finals of URC and Europe regularly, I'm getting picked in Ireland squads, training with world class players each day, my family and friends (girlfriend, house, if it's applicable) are all close by. Why would I want to move to Connacht to fight for 8th-12th in the league each season?

A Scott Penny, Max Deegan to an extent I get. It isn't the same situation with G McCarthy when he is just 22 and getting selected for Ireland.

You didn't answer my two questions to you. I'll repeat them below incase you missed them.

1. Has a player ever moved from Leinster to Connacht and improved their career?

2. If my team is getting to semi finals/finals of URC and Europe regularly, I'm getting picked in Ireland squads, training with world class players each day, my family and friends (girlfriend, house, if it's applicable) are all close by. Why would I want to move to Connacht to fight for 8th-12th in the league each season?

Ben Murphy is a fair shout from all three replies. Josh Murphy possibly another that I forgot myself. Not sure I agree on the others but if you all do, fair enough.

My response wasn’t having a go at Connacht either. The constant calls for Leinster players to be moved to every other team though gets tiresome. Leinster are down to the bare bones during any international window with AIL players often covering some spots on the bench. Leinster do a pretty good job of spotting talent and who to keep (bar a couple notable mess ups) and obviously they can’t keep everybody but I think they should be afforded the opportunity to keep the players that they want, considering they developed them without the IRFU putting pressure on individuals to move elsewhere. Once the player themselves wants to stay obviously.

Josh Murphy got his first Irish A call up this season i think after 3 seasons ( 1 sabatical) at Connacht. This is probably the only one who comes close to meeting your criteria BingoBango.

I would propose Paul Boyle, Cian Prendegast, Ben Murphy, Andrew Smith, Sam Illo and Jack Aungier are players who moved at earlier stages of their careers and are on upwardish trajectories.

Andy Farrell in the independent today saying that he is open to bringing in more coaches and making adjustments to the coaching ticket before the world cup.

If Ireland have any chance to get past the quarter finals of the World cup, they need to make some big swings. Outside of Farrell and Easterby, nobody should be safe. New Scrum coach, new attack/backs coach, new lineout coach. Keep O'Connell on as the forwards coach. Ireland need to have somewhat the element of surprise when they get to the World cup. Currently for both Ireland and Leinster, it is way too easy to predict the squad, what plan they have and who's on the bench.

Changing out the staff after the 6 nations would be a good idea because it only gives other teams a little bit of time to make adjustments and by the time the World Cup comes around, the new gameplan will only actually be fully bedded in and understood by the players.

I would love for Ireland to bring in:

Attack/ Backs Coach: Noel McNamara - He has Union Bordeaux Bégles playing beautiful, vast and attacking rugby. Think he could do a great job with Ireland.

Scrum Coach: Gurthrö Steenkamp - He did great things with La Rochelle and he might be the perfect person to teach Ireland the dark arts of the scrum. He just finished up with La Rochelle in July and could be a very important addition

Lineout Coach: Alex Codling - Munster Line out coach - He has the lineout in Munster absolutely humming, anyone who talks about him talks about his genius intellect and how he is obsessed with the lineout.

On Top of that we need to introduce a head of Irish Rugby's elite referees panel. Hiring a Nigel Owen to come in and really coach up the players on discipline and what referees are looking out for would be huge.

On top of that, Farrell needs to be brave enough to bring in new blood. Players like Robert Baloucoune, Brian Gleeson, Ruadhan Quinn, Jude Postlethwaite, Hugh Gavin, Edwin Edogbo, Nathan Doak, Shayne Bolton and Tom Stewart are all players who should really be in with a shout of being in the next world cup squad. Fresh blood will revitalise this tired looking Ireland squad.