Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

No feelings hurt here Pete, don't worry about that, I appreciate your concern though! I couldn't really care less how he played 3 years ago for ye, only how he's going recently, so maybe search inside that great big lovely heart of yours and give him another chance. If Stephen Archer can lock out scrums in big games in South Africa having spent his early and mid-20s being a deckchair maybe Milne can learn and improve too…

You're entitled to your opinion, personally I'm seeing differently in his appearances for us… which is why I find it strange Clegg is constantly hammering the "crap/awful" scrummager line at every opportunity.

Milne looks solid enough in the scrum to my untrained eye, solid enough to be Munster first choice already, he's very good in the loose. Made a bigger impression than Lee Barron for sure down this way.

I wasn't talking about him in an international context btw, just on how he's 'awful' and 'crap' at scrummaging when I'm not seeing that. He's been in and around Ireland squads the last couple of years and played against Spain so he must have something going for him that the international coaches like. There's a plethora of props log-jammed behind Healy and Porter for almost the last decade so time will tell I guess on the Ireland front for Milne and others.

If he turns out to be crap at scrummaging, I'll do similar to Sam in defence and I'll hold my hands up!

Your first post in response to mine opened on a provincial argument. I've linked you to posts, when Milne was still a Leinster player, highlighting my reservations about him as a scrummager. You'll also see other posters issues as well. My position on him has been the same for years now.

You have ignored that and now gone on a different tangent. It's obvious what you're doing but whatever. You've worn down everyone with the usual nonsense. Have at it.

I would have thought from those posts that it was obvious I felt Milne's scrummaging was bad. In the space of a year he again failed to kick on and instead moved from competing with Healy for 2nd choice to falling to 4th choice.

These positions are in fact the same. And I'll ask you again, like I did in the Leinster thread before, to stop misrepresenting my positions.

It's entirely reasonable to hold these are the same position. Because they are. You're now just arguing over language because you don't have a point of substance to make.

It's pretty obvious from those posts that I thought his scrummaging was bad. It's a consistently held position.

For sure. If anything then financially speaking the World Cup should be used as a training session for the 6 Nations

For the sake of accuracy here, the extent to which I "jumped to Milne's defence when McCarthy was selected in the AI squad ahead of him"was to post the following in the Munster thread:

Coombes and Milne both unlucky to miss out. I think Ireland were held up over the line 5 times during the 6 Nations? You'd think those 2 would be handy additions to the squad…

That was the entirety of my comment on both Milne and McCarthy after the squad announcement until you posted the following rubbish 2 days later.

Interestingly I don't remember many calls outside leinster for Milne to be included before now… although I'm sure it would be the same for Mccarthy if it was him that had moved south

Which clearly just reads as you wanting to have a swipe at Munster fans more than anything else….

Enlighten me to the full extent of my comments then?

But who would you drop? Which of the 3?

Can’t drop Sheehan, no way

Kelleher is a lion

Gus Mac has been ear marked for a while now, has a few caps under his belt and has been in a few camps, where he gotten up to speed

which hooker in Ireland could compare with the 3?

For those who haven't seen it, James Tracy on the 42.ie has a good analysis of the Scrum issues against SA. It negates the overly simplistic notion that it's always Porters fault, and focuses instead on the hooker-tighthead bind as the problem. Maybe the height difference is an issue after all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVUsKMAGOjE

personally I don’t think it’s about which hooker is better than McCarty or if Milne is better than the Leinster non starters. The point is that the best players on the island should be playing/starting as many games in the league/cup as possible. That will obviously be detrimental to Leinster but this is the Irish thread and as an Irish fan I think any other way of looking at it is perverse.

In an ideal world this should be the case, I agree. But you then have two options A. Force players to move. Or B. Select inferior players just because they play for a different province.

McCarthy v Stewart is one that’s been commonly brought up, with people saying Stewart should be there given he’s higher up his provinces depth chart. But McCarthy has actually played more rugby than Stewart since the start of last season. Stewart only managed to start 1 game last season. So if game time isn’t an issue for Stewart, it isn’t an issue for McCarthy.

I find the Michael Milne debate gas. Literally nobody was calling for his inclusion before April when he was 4th choice at Leinster (at best). But all of a sudden now he’s been shafted and would have saved our scrum v the Boks. Has driving down the M7 magically made him a better rugby player or something.

Is it ideal that our first three looseheads and hookers play for one province? Absolutely not. I’d much rather it wasn’t the case. But unless Stewart rediscovers his early career form and someone improves immensely at loosehead, that’s where we’re at. It’s not ideal by any means but the solution isn’t selecting worse players because they play for a different province.

I find the Michael Milne debate gas. Literally nobody was calling for his inclusion before April when he was 4th choice at Leinster (at best). But all of a sudden now he’s been shafted and would have saved our scrum v the Boks. Has driving down the M7 magically made him a better rugby player or something.

I'm not sure I've seen anyone make the claim that "he's been shafted and would have saved out scrum v the Boks"?

Another point is obviously Healy was in situ prior to April. His retirement naturally freed up a spot in the squad that Milne was competing for, so he was automatically one spot closer to inclusion just from that alone. That's part of the context of any calls for his inclusion.