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Greta Thunberg (Continued...)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Even communist dictatorships have population increases, they are not capitalist. You said :

    “Huh? The biggest drive of population increase is Capitalism, it requires more and more people to provide the growth the economy demands.”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 112 ✭✭tradfan1


    Gretta is a professional activist for every cause!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,103 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Who told you the 22nd of November protest was midweek? And who told you it was mainly students, pensioners and the unemployed? I'd love to know here you get your info.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    The mass distribution protests are planned to stop people getting to work for the maximum impact and publicity. That impact was disruption rather than anything positive. Most of the just stop oil pledges from governments were rolled back after Ukraine war and the realisation that you need to extract any energy possible locally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,103 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Very interesting. So who told you the 22nd of November protest was midweek? And who told you it was mainly students, pensioners and the unemployed? I'd love to know here you get your info.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    I didn’t mention that date specifically in that post. I was referring to these protests generally. Anyone spending their free time going to this hasn’t got much going on in their lives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,575 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Calling people keyboard warriors and saying a women has bigger balls than them is an insult.

    It is a blanket statement attempting to get a reaction from posters by not directly responding to such posts.

    I thought that was against the rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,203 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    You didn't show me impact. You just restated what you said earlier.

    BTW, Greta is in favour of nuclear energy.

    https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/greta-thunbergs-pro-nuclear-comment-stirs-german-runtime-extension-debate

    Also, i don't see why you're bringing in migration into this, but you do realise that the population of the planet doesn't increase when people move. And unless you're against people from another country having the same standard of living that we do, I can't see why it should matter in the climate discussion.

    If you do think that our carbon output is too high, are you in favor of massive cutbacks in carbon producing in western countries? For example heavily taxing meat to encourage a vegetarian lifestyle. Especially since the biggest industry contributing to greenhouse gases in Ireland, not to mention deforestation and depletion of wildlife, is farming.

    https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/environment-at-a-glance-country-notes_59ce6fe6-en/ireland_b15fb7fb-en.html#:~:text=The%20per%20person%20production%2Dbased,but%20decreased%20again%20in%202022.

    https://www.epa.ie/our-services/monitoring--assessment/climate-change/ghg/agriculture/

    Can you prove me wrong by pointing out a few environmental campaigners/protesters that you fully support. People that have the same policies as Greta but you feel are better than her. It would also be great if you could provide any actual damage that she's done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,392 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Immigration matters regarding the environmentalism debate because if you increase the population of a country it damages the environment within that country.

    By allowing free for all immigration it means individual countries don't have to concern themselves with being sustainable and keeping their population lower they can just let people emigrate to other parts of the world. If every country had to be self sustaining it would mean world wide population would decrease as country's would have to be able to cope with their own homegrown population by themselves rather than just letting people leave for some other country to sustain them.

    I've told you what damage she's done, you've just ignore it, she now has become a professional activist for every cause and causes people to roll their eyes when she talks so anything of value she might say just gets ignored. The type of spoilt brat activism she and the likes of extinction rebellion etc encourage isn't endearing and as a result whatever message they try to get across gets lost. That is the damage she's been a part of as I have said already.

    I don't tend to follow any environmentalists, I tend to like good idea about helping the environment irrespective of where they come from. For example Elon Musk (as much of a dickhead as he is) has been regularly pointing out how the USA is not fully exploiting solar energy and he's 100% correct in that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,103 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    You specifically quoted a post about this very event. In fact you bought the event to light on this thread. Again, who told you it was a weekday protest and who told you about the demographics of the people that were there?

    I take the point that it can be read as insulting, but it wasn’t intended to provoke individuals or bait responses. It was a general comment on the tone and behaviour across the discussion rather than a reply to any specific post or poster. If the forum rules require only direct responses to individual arguments, that’s fair, but commenting on wider patterns in a thread is also a common and legitimate part of discussion. If you feel triggered and are worried about your balls or the fact that you could be a keyboard warrier that's on you.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,203 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    So there's no environmentalists that you can actually suggest except for Musk. At least you admit he's a cnut.

    So she's the only person you can think of who's actively campaigning for the environment, but you think she's hurting the cause. I'd say the fact that you're aware of what she's campaigning against is a sign that she's effective. She isn't campaigning to be liked, neither is XR or any other group. They're campaigning to make people aware. And because of them stuff gets in the news.

    BTW, no country could be self sustaining. Ireland had no native fuels except for turf. And we've seen what relying on that has done. We could use renewable, but we can't produce any of that ourselves. We don't have access to the raw materials to make windmills or tidal generators or anything like that. the same goes for nuclear. We need to import stuff. And a lot of that stuff comes from places far away. Quite a bit from countries that we accept refugees from.

    the only country in the world that comes close to self sustaining is North Korea. And we say what happened to them. massive famines and a population that needs to be kept down by brutal methods.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,189 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    I suppose Elon jettisoning a Tesla in orbit is one less Tesla on the road to bettering our planet. Way to go!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,402 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Strangely enough people on low incomes and the young are among the most affected by climate change.

    So if they decide to give their time to attend protests/demos they understand the issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    It will only result in a green tax, a great excuse for the government the take more of your money while doing nothing, other than regulating local industries making them uncompetitive through taxation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,402 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    It's moving on a bit from discussing non violent direct action but yes we will have to pay our way.

    Did you think someone else would write us a blank cheque ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    No you don’t, as I have said before if you don’t fly you can massively reduce your carbon footprint as it is one if not the biggest polluters individuals create, then don’t own a car and you are in the top percent of low carbon footprint individuals. Those are all personal, they require no government intervention and are all personal choices. They would achieve more than green taxes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,402 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    We live on an island so transport emissions are always going to be problematic for us.

    People who live in rural areas need their cars.

    It's impossible to reach climate change targets without Government intervention and the only way the Government is funded is by taxation.

    And getting back to Greta, she doesn't fly or own a car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    If you spend your life travelling to different countries to protest you can’t have a low carbon footprint, you are still travelling more than the average person.

    Green taxes go into the same tax pot, they are not ear marked for only climate projects, the first down turn they will be cut but the taxes won’t and will remain just like USC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,402 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    She travels by train which is a great advantage for mainland Europeans.

    Even for things like COP you can't expect environmental campaigners not to attend so a compromise has to be made.

    Governments have to invest in things like public transport and active transport so that their citizens can make greener choices.

    The money has to come from somewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,103 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    The earths oceans are extremely big, trans Pacific and Atlantic boat trips take weeks, a plane takes hours. If Greta used a boat, she would arrive too late to speak while people are still listening. Flying helps her stay relevant, so her message is heard at the right time.

    It also keeps her relevant and people like you who have literally hundreds of posts about her keep her causes alive.

    For instance I didn't know about the Venice protest until you started posting false information about it here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Again, so she gets to travel the world to raise awareness of a cause everyone is already aware of while wagging her finger at us, it nice she gets all these holidays and none of you seem to question why she’s travelling at all instead of joining a video conference call and have someone put her on a speaker.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    It’s all unnecessary travel by a professional protester that doesn’t have a real job or is impacted by inflation or these taxes like regular people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,103 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    You're still not getting it. I'll explain further.

    Greta Thunberg isn’t travelling for a jolly or a holiday, she’s doing the exact thing protests have always done, physically showing up where decisions are being made so the issue can’t be ignored. Being there creates coverage, pressure, headlines and discomfort. A video call does none of that and would be forgotten in five minutes.

    We've all heard of climate change. That doesn’t mean governments or corporations are acting at the scale or speed required. Awareness without pressure changes nothing.

    Ironically, the constant fixation and criticism by obsessed people like you is part of why she’s still effective. If she stayed at home on Zoom, nobody would be talking about it at all, including the people complaining about her travel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    You can’t expect people to make sacrifices that you are not willing to make, just because a small group of people turn up to protest doesn’t mean that their cause should be put over the masses, what they want will increase prices and just offshore any industry they don’t like. It doesn’t get rid of them.



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