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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,250 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    You are talking about the Anglo-Irish treaty of 1921, right?

    The one where Ireland had to accept the King of England was the head of the Irish state, that Ireland was part of the British Empire? That all elected representatives of the Irish people had to swear an oath of loyalty to the English King? That the British military would continue to occupy military bases in Ireland? That the island would be partitioned? That the Irish state would continue to pay for the debts of the British state - including the pensions of the British armed forces that occupied Ireland? Which stated that any Irish law would be subservient to the terms of the treaty?

    Whatever terms are imposed on Ukraine it is unlikely that they will be required to recognise Putin as their head of state, that Ukraine is part of Russia, or that their elected representatives must swear loyalty to Putin, or that Ukraine must take on the debts of Russia. The Anglo-Irish treaty was incredibly brutal in its terms. Arguably, it locked in a nominal British victory in which Ireland remained under the British crown and empire. And yet Irish patriots with the best interests of the Irish people in mind recognised that it was the best option for Irish interests. It conceded mostly ceremonial aspects such as the head of state, and an oath which even Dev later dismissed as mere words and in exchange granted real tools to establish de-facto and by extension de-jure independence.

    This is what baffles me about the unrealistic warmongering in Ireland particularly. We should know better. We know what it is to live alongside a neighbour that is vastly stronger than we are. And yet we demand the Ukrainians die to the last person, when we know from our own experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 338 ✭✭somenergy


    Unfortunately the Kremlin pounced just as the scandal in Ukraine happened and with the help of there man in the WH get it done before TG.

    The surrender is the end for Ukraine spoils go to russia and usa with felon picking up a few 100ms.

    Now europe has an embolden russia threating at every chance it gets we will have untouchable spy ships on our coastline when ever russia wants to remind us



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 364 ✭✭ClimateObserver


    Probably because there'd be a nuke on Kiev before a drone would get to Moscow?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Om Today with Pat Kenny, it emerged that when reports of the plan emerged, Witkoff tweeted 'K must have leaked it' before deleting the tweet. Who is "K"? They think it's Kirill Dmitriev.

    The United States has threatened to cut intelligence sharing and weapons supplies for Ukraine to press it into agreeing to the framework of a U.S.-brokered peace deal, two people familiar with the matter said.The sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that Kyiv was under greater pressure from Washington than during any previous peace discussions, and that the U.S. wanted Ukraine to sign a framework of the deal by next Thursday.

    Provisions in this ultimatum would help Russia vassalise what's left of Ukraine. The ban on foreign diplomats landing there, as mentioned by the Daily Telegraph. Can you imagine Michael Collins accepting such terms in 1922?

    Post edited by Ozymandius2011 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,369 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Ukraine needs to adapt to life without the US directly, but through EU, AND NATO they can still obtain all they need from US



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    But they'll have to give up 25% of their country a bit like we did in the north. The Donbass and Crimea of particular economic importance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,496 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Always funny how it's called 'warmongering' when people generally just want Ukraine to be allowed to defend itself against an unprovoked invasion.

    Why do these same people never demand that Russia just pulls out of Ukraine, but always demand that Ukraine has to give up territory and their ability to defend themselves from future aggression ?

    Rhetorical, I know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    The people who live there would probably face the kind of oppression Russia is subjecting the people of the occupied territories to. Rewarding the people that invaded Ukraine and destroyed Mariupol and countless other towns, committed the Bucha massacre, banned the Ukrainian language which was spoken by a large minority in Donbass before the invasion - far more than speak the Irish language in Ireland. These areas are the most fortified region in Europe. Giving them up would be like the Czechs losing the Alpine fortresses in the Sudetenland in 1938 which happened in the Munich Agreement.

    The phrase "Russia is expected not to invade" more countries is eerily similar to the phrase "This is my last territorial demand' that Hitler signed at Munich. Its important the history of all of this is thought in our schools. Appeasement was in the history books when I was in Secondary School.

    DW are saying Merz spoke to Trump, and that while they will discuss the plan, they will also discuss the counter plan Europe has drawn up with Zelensky.

    Post edited by Ozymandius2011 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    BBC report on the former Reform UK Welsh leader Nathan Gill Russian bribe case is on now. An ex Yanukovych era politician in Ukraine, Oleg Voloshin was involved. A woman close to Voloshin was photographed with Nigel Farage. Farage denies knowing what was going on.

    Also report on Belgian MEPs receiving cash payments in return for positive statements about Russia. Exiled Ukrainian pro Russian oligarch, Victor Medvedchuk, is said to be behind it. Putin is the godfather of one of his children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,400 ✭✭✭Addmagnet


    Russia works on the 'One Man, One Vote' system - and Putin is that man!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Appeasement may have been in the history books but geography wasn't on the curriculum if you think Sudetenland had any proximity to the Alps, there were also no defences there given that over 90% of the population was native German



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,400 ✭✭✭Addmagnet


    Thanks Comrade! Haven't been able to tick 'Da Bomb!' off my vatnik bingo card for months!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    The Bohemian Forest (Šumava) in the Sudetenland is partly Alpine. But the Czech border defences were now in German hands with the ceding of the region to Germany, and it did not bring peace it just whetted Hitlers appetite and belief noone would stand in his way.

    The fact that 90% of the population were ethnic Germans does not alter the fact that it had never been part of Imperial Germany. It was part of the Kingdom of Bohemia which was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire before WW1.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,384 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    so I guess the hundreds of drones that already flew (uninterrupted) to Moscow over the last year or so don’t count….. or maybe Russia are bluffers

    Post edited by AndyBoBandy on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Sir Ben Wallace, former Defence Secretary of the UK, says that for the first time in his lifetime, Europe is about to outspend the United States on military equipment (3 minutes in).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭Avatar in the Post


    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyx9xnpll8o


    The adults are about to enter the conversation, and this is what Zelensky is buying time for, ‘yes mr bigly Trump, oh what big hands you’ve got, yes we will give very, very, big attention to your peace plan. BTW, some very big words in that peace plan, many even multi syllable. Showing great cognitive ability by you, mighty President.’


    And then Zelensky will discuss with the grown ups at the G20 how much Ukraine is sacrificing for Europe, and that Europe needs to stand with Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    MAGA = Morons are Governing America.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Glenomra


    What do you think that 'the grown ups' will proceed to do for President Zelensky.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    No. Ireland didn't have to give up what was never under it's rule. Ukraine was twenty years as an independent, unified nation before the Ruzzian demands began. It's as if Britain started demanding Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan because they're part of Ulster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,837 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    It's not clear to me that Ukraine will be able to survive if American support is completely withdrawn at short notice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    I say if they cut them off from starlink and let's say intelligence information provided be massive setbacks to Ukraine. I honestly wish Europe would get off the fence here properly. I wonder can Ukraine not invite the Polish military into their territory and Poland accepts it and states we need to provide air cover etc. For our forces that are stationed there, not attacking Russia but if anything came there way they would blow it out of the sky. If a lot more European countries did this would help Ukraine out so much. You only need 1 or 2 brave countries to do this and the rest will follow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭mossie


    Incorrect, the Czechs had begun construction of their equivalent of the French Maginot line in the Sudetenland after WW1. They lost almost all these fortifications in the Munich appeasement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,481 ✭✭✭Rawr


    It can and will survive. Keep in mind that the AFU managed to hold back the main thrust of the initial 2022 invasion with considerably less than they have access to now. This was also back when pretty much everyone had written off Ukraine and believed the Russian BS that the country would be taken in 3 days. Russia was in a lot better shape back then too.

    4 years later Ukraine is now in a full war footing with nearly the entirety of European NATO supplying them. A US withdrawal would of course make things very difficult, and would likely rule out any kind of large counter-attack, but they are still facing a cack-handed Russian meatwave crawl across the Dombass that the Cauldron Club are trying their damnest to big up as some kind of success.

    As I’ve mentioned before and will again now, the war is about outlasting the Russians and even without US support this is achievable. It would be a damn sight better with the US, but right now they can’t be relied upon. At least not until grownups attain power there again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,481 ✭✭✭Rawr


    That’s quite a lot of Georges Crosses on the profile. Kind of suggests a a certain bias to their posting. It’s a similar kind of bias when one posts in support of the Russian Federation (as “RF” as their friends call them) and then leaves out all of the instances where the Russians bomb children in their beds.

    That seems pretty damned biased and not neutral at all. Unless of course…Bricky…you can provide an argument as to why such a position could be called “neutral”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,384 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    meanwhile in the land of the cross…

    IMG_7992.jpeg

    strange times indeed when Farage is talking sense….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    One of his party members being convicted of taking russian bribes would do that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,481 ✭✭✭Rawr


    The cynic in me wonders if this is just a deflection in response to some of his Reform buddies being exposed for taking on Russian gifts and just being all round useful idiots for the Kremlin.

    Old Nigel himself was a regular visitor to RT News back in the day too. My gut tells me that his heart isn’t exactly in this statement and he’ll turn pro-Russian as soon as he thinks he can get away with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy struck a defiant note on Saturday as the country commemorated the “great famine” that Soviet leader Josef Stalin imposed on Ukraine in the early 1930s, which led to millions of deaths.

    “We all know how and why millions of our people died, starved to death, and millions were never born. And we are once again defending ourselves against Russia, which has not changed and is once again bringing death,” Zelenskyy said in a post on Telegram marking Holodomor Memorial Day.

    “We defended, defend, and will always defend Ukraine. Because only here is our home. And in our home, Russia will definitely not be the master,” Zelenskyy added.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,669 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    This isn’t a peace plan, it’s Russias terms of surrender for Ukraine.

    Trump is like an old mafia boss performing a shake down on a business he wants to take over.Hopefully Zelenskyy tells him to go fcuk himself and Europe stands up.



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