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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I doubt it - I think it would definitely be Farrell. I'd be much more comfortable with Tom Farrell playing 12 than I would be with the likes of Bundee or Stu McCloskey playing 13.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I don't get Tom Farrell on the bench at all, other than the fact we know Farrell likes a centre in the 23 jersey. Jimmy O'Brien or Jacob Stockdale make more sense. Who is covering Full Back? Crowley? Who is covering the wing? Ringrose? Either O'Brien or Stockdale would have made a lot more sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭Le Bruise


    Didn't know that about PSDT. Anyone else and I'd say their match fitness should be in the gutter, but the man is a machine!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,699 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Farrell really doesn't rate JOB at all. Some fall from grave to go from playing well in a WC QF to not even featuring at all in a Nov series.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    He wasn't in the original squad, so it's not that surprising.

    I kind of get it to an extent, even though JOB is a player I like and he's very valuable for Leinster. Jimmy is one of those guys who can do a very adequate job in multiple positions (in so many ways ideal bench cover), but he just isn't stellar arguably in any of them.

    He's played relatively well for Leinster this season, and I think if he was tearing up trees in Irish squad training he'd have gotten a chance either last week or this week, but I would assume he isn't.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭FtD v2




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,089 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    He had a poor beginning to the Club season so really he can't complain.

    Farrell has made no bones about it in recent weeks, that lads who aren't stepping up in camp and training are in peril, and he showed undisguised irritation about errors and slack performance in the first two fixtures, so it's evident that a very high bar has been set for them across their contributions.

    Aki can count himself lucky that he happens to be the third of three options and the other two are hurt. He needs to get his head on straight in a massive way and sort out his discipline on both sides of the ball, because he's been making rookie mistakes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I'd imagine your assumptions are correct; Crowley covering FB, and Ringrose (or even JGP in a pinch) covering wing.

    As happy as I am for Farrell to pick up his 2nd cap, I think I'd have favoured Stockdale too tbh. But my guess is he's favoured Farrell as a consequence of Aki's poor form.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Would have preferred Clarkson on the bench. Probably would have went with Henshaw at 12 but Aki still has a big game in him. Happy to see Farrell at 23. Prendergasts boot will be important in this game. Worried about him in defence, no doubt Rassie will have as many ball carriers as possible running at him but needs to play these games if he is to keep progressing.

    Post edited by bingobango12 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭SaoPaulo41




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I presume this is the case, but has it been confirmed anywhere?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 598 ✭✭✭Tommybojangles


    I'd be a Henshaw defender to a certain extent and have been this autumn but the level of mental gymnastics required to call him 'in-form' is off the charts

    https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/in-form-robbie-henshaw-ready-for-proper-test-against-world-champions-south-africa/a1327867692.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭almostover


    I agree with Sam's selection for this very reason. We need to see can he do what he did vs. Aus against a top team like SA. Can he pick apart their blitz defence? Can his physicality stand up to what SA will throw at him? Have to put him in at the deep end and see if he can produce the goods. These series are the opportunity to try these things.

    Crowley in many ways is the steady Eddie, the safe bet. We know he'll be able to handle the Boks physically. But won't have quite the same guile as Sam in attack. It's up to Sam to prove he can handle a hugely physical game and still influence the game with his tactical kicking and passing talents.

    Post edited by almostover on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,699 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    saying poor performance counted against Jimmy, but not seemingly against any other player doesn't seem to track.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Fwiw, I think Baird's performances have most likely put to bed the possibility of Beirne at 6 going forward (which I'm pretty glad about, however well it went for the Lions).

    Imo the most likely knock-on effect is that James Ryan will be the one to drop out of the starting 15 when McCarthy returns. As important as Ryan is for us, I don't think he's turned out to be the generational player we all hoped he'd be when he burst onto the scene as far back as 2018.

    A side note to this, and probably premature, but with Farrell recently preferring 2 back-rows on the bench with Baird as the 2nd row cover, could Henderson have played his last game for Ireland? Always thought he'd hit the 100 caps.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 598 ✭✭✭Tommybojangles


    Poor performance will count against you more when you've never been a starter to be fair. Plenty of players are given more leeway if they've proven they can be top players over the years, and rightly so



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    You're last paragraph is funny as I said almost the exact same thing to someone last weekend that I see Prendergast like a Finn Russell. Can do magic things but also can do something crazy and be flakey. Luckily he has time on his side.

    Where I said Crowley is more like a George Ford. Solid, won't let you down, but doesn't have the same ability to do something brilliant to change the game.

    Both good players, hopefully both are given the time to prove themselves for Ireland but I'm excited to see if Prendergast can back up last week with a step up in opposition this week. That said, really hope he can stand up in defence as it's a glaring area that SA will target.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    If Stockdale was on the bench then who'd go to 13 if Ringrose went down. I think Ringrose, jpg, or hansen can go to wing and Crowley/Casey/ Farrel to come on which is not much disruption.

    I actually think there's sufficient wing/full back cover to justify a centre on the bench.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,699 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I don't think Jimmy has played poorly at all, certainly not to the extent that say Henshaw or Aki have. Also, given the season has been a whole 4 games long to date, ignoring lads who've actually been playing well is how you get a performance like Chicago.

    I'm just moreso surprised that he can go from being in the 23 shirt for a WC qf, where he was one of the better players, to not even making the squad, in a season where he has been one of the better players in an underperforming Leinster team.

    Farrell's selection decisions in the backs have run contrary to form, which is odd when compared to his willingness to bring through youth in more demanding positions like the front row.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    This time there is yes. If there was to be any other alternative (viable) it would then be JOB.

    Whos JPeG?

    JGP was excellent on the wing (or was it FB?) v Aus. Didn't he have to do that before in a 6N game? Was it v Wales?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    With Stockdale on the bench, then it'd likely be Crowley to 12 with Aki to 13, which is obviously far from ideal either (to say the least).

    It's a difficult one, you're never going to cover all positions to a reasonable degree. I guess that's the case for JOB, but he seems out of favour at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,087 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    JOB's problem is that ultimately, he's a little bit short of real test quality. Since that RWC QF (which he only played because Henshaw got injured), he's seen Nash, Osborne and TOB come in ahead of him so his appearances have dwindled and now it looks like Tom Farrell is impressing also. He wouldn't let anyone down if picked but it's difficult to see how he's very hard done by.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,327 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Dissappianingly regressive selection after what was a more progressive team that played very well last week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    I don't know. Who is JGeP? The post you quoted didn't mention him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,997 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I think everybody knows it's JGP. Stop being so pedantic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,699 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Farrell's insistence on having a 12 in the 23 jersey, over someone like Jimmy or Lowry is a justified criticism imo. Hansen did well going forward Vs Australia, but he wasn't tested at all defensively, whereas Jimmy and Lowry have performed well at 15 this season. Jimmy may not be individually better as a player than Osborne or Hansen, but I think he's been better in the positions that they've been selected at. Farrell gambled on Stockdale, but he's had the same issues at this level that have been there for a long time unfortunately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Lowry is not even in the squad, and realistically only plays 15. I don't see how he does much for us either in the 23 shirt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,699 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I know, he should've been in the squad though. He offers a lot more coming off the bench than a centre, I'd back him to fill in the back 3, or even at 10 in a crunch. He's a very talented player.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,112 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Out of curiosity, did you read the post I responded to?



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