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Ireland V Australia. Saturday 15th Nov. Build up thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭daithi7


    Ah jeez, is that the same SP who threw 2 intercepts in his woeful 10-15 minute cameo versus NZ the week before!? He was awful versus NZ & also versus Munster 2 weeks earlier , where JC totally outplayed him the same day, yet a 20 minute cameo versus a tiring Japan with Irish fresh legs off the bench appears to justify his selection as Ireland's starting 10 for some LFs!?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,087 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Exactly. Crowley got the first two starts and, unless Prendergast absolutely blows Australia away, he's very likely to come back in for the SA game. That's "backing" him by any reasonable definition while still giving Prendergast the exposure he desperately needs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭Skyfloater


    We are on 88.85 and Australia in 7th place are on 81.69. There's no scenario where they can bridge a 7 point gap in only two games.

    Henshaw at 13 would be a disaster, might as well have Cian Healy out there.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,403 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    i think ireland are exploring a more kick heavy game so it makes sense to give the start to the better in-game kicker.

    we kicked 1 in 4 against new zealand (they kicked 1 in 8)

    we were 1 in 8 against japan because they provided holes all over the place.

    i expect a similar kicking percentage against Australia because 1, we have physical, not very fast, centers and 2, they are very "get-at-able" at ruck time so we will pile into loose balls.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He's starting because they don't want the same guy starting all 4 matches. I don't think he has done anything to reclaim the jersey.

    However, clearly Crowley has not grabbed such a hold of the jersey that it is beyond question that Prendergast could start against SA if he puts in an excellent performance against Aus. I don't think it is very likely, but it is not out of the question. Because the gap between them isn't as big as you are suggesting.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 598 ✭✭✭Tommybojangles


    I'd be fairly confident in saying that never in my 30ish years watching rugby has there been a situation where we had 4 autumn internationals and Ireland started the same 10 in all of them. Maybe i'm wrong there but it's certainly not something you'd want happenening. even if Crowley was man of the match in both games so far (in which case he'd have taken his opportunity to put daylight between them in the 10 debate) Prendergast should still start one of the remaining games.

    Prendergast needs an abolutely out of this world 11/10 performance to usurp crowley for South Africa so I wouldn't worry about it. Club form will then come into play for who starts the 6 Nations, just as it did last year.

    The irony being that if Prendergast did have an 11/10 performance, smashes tackles all over the place, goes 8/8 from the tee and scores 3 tries, you'd have people complaining it's because Farrell 'favoured him'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,155 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    There's no scenario where they can bridge a 7 point gap in only two games

    There is when their next game is against us. Any form of Australian win is an instant 4 point swing. If they manage a >15 point win, that'd be a 6 point swing - not likely, but certainly possible if some of the team "improvements" suggested here were put into practice.

    Australia would still need something from the French game (and us to lose to SA), but neither of those things are beyond the realms of possibility

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    You are one of a great many Munster fans who appear utterly unable to take any kind of critical view of Jack Crowley's performances, and just resort to criticising Prendergast.

    Are you going to claim Crowley has played well the last two weeks?

    You're moaning about other positions where your current player du jour is not being selected, but in the case of the 10 shirt you think it should just be handed to Crowley and we'll give him indefinite time in the shirt to play himself into form, and if he's not playing well, it can only be the fault of the coaches or the other players. It's nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭almostover


    No, It's just that he has offered very little impact off the bench with quite some time and we'd be better off using the 19 jersey to develop an alternative like Tom Aherne or Darragh Murray. I'm also fine with using the 19 shirt to develop Prendergast senior. He doesn't play 2nd row but Ryan Baird moves there when he's brought in.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It doesn't matter if Australia overtake us. Argentina, England and France would all have to do so as well.

    I think the only possible permutation that would see us drop to 7th is losing by >15 points to both Australia and South Africa, Argentina beating Scotland by >15 points and Australia beating France.

    It's pretty unlikely.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,155 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    It doesn't matter if Australia overtake us. Argentina, England and France would all have to do so as well.

    If Australia overtake us, England and France will almost certainly overtake us, and Argentina will be very close.

    A fairly basic set of results that doesn't require any major surprises (bar Australia beating us by >15): link. If those results happened, we'd be relying on England to beat Argentina in the last game, or else we'd finish 7th

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  • Administrators Posts: 56,565 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Doris at 7 and Henshaw at 13 would be very disappointing calls, I really hope Thornley is wrong on those.

    Henshaw getting caps on the back of the performances he has put in for the past year or so is laughable, he is absolutely dining out on historical form.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,328 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    i agree to both. Other 7 options need to be explored - Hodnett, Stewart, Timoney



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I would classify Australia beating France as a fairly major surprise. I would also classify Argentina beating England in Twickenham as a pretty decent surprise. If NZ beat England by more than 15 the point becomes moot as they would be the ones dropping to 7th.

    It is possible, but it is a pretty narrow path.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,384 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    I dont really mind Doris at 7 but Henshaw looks miles off the pace this year and we should be investing time in someone else now. The question is who?



  • Administrators Posts: 56,565 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I'm less concerned about investing time in future options, Farrell didn't bring in any young, fresh faces for the 13 jersey to the squad at the end of the day.

    But I'd select Tom Farrell over Robbie Henshaw every day of the week, even though he's clearly not the future either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,384 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Yeah buts kinda my point, we have 5 centres (ringrose, aki, henshaw, farrell and McCloskey) all over 30 and Aki and henshaw in particular are major concerns age/injury profile wise. Of that 5, its possible only one (maybe two) might still actually be playing in 2 years time.

    At 7 we have issues but Doris playing there is not a big issue for me as backrows these days tend to be able to fulfil most of the different roles to a degree. The skillets crossover a lot more these days.

    Our biggest issues outside of the lineout being a cluster fcuk are at 9, 10 (because neither have nailed down the jersey for themselves) and centre (age profile mainly) and our back play is horrific this year.

    Back three is not too bad as we have a lot of players with a not too dissimilar ability wise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61 ✭✭shimmieandshake


    Agree Henshaw would be an odd pick.

    I was happy to see Tom Farrell called-up - his form deserves recognition - but I'd have been happier if we'd stretched to Postlethwaite, and even happier if we'd chucked Gavin in there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 oso92


    Picking Henshaw boggles my mind. His pace and any inkling of attacking dynamism has left the building at 12 whatever about 13.

    I'd also have Farrell over him every day of the week. He (Farrell) has far, far fewer miles on the clock - circa 100 professional games vs. Henshaw. I'm not convinced Henshaw will be playing in 2yrs.

    As it relates to Saturday, I know Farrell's defence has been cited as a weakness, and Henshaw is a good defender (at 12) but I'd be concerned that Ikitau and JAS could really expose Henshaw's lack of pace.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,403 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    just had a quick look at this.

    assuming australia and SA beat ireland by 15+ then the following would have to happen for ireland to drop to 7th

    argentina to beat one of scotland or england, and australia to beat france.

    if we get within 15 of either Australia or SA this becomes even less likely.

    all moot as we're going to beat Australia on saturday anyway



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,087 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    The (alleged) Doris selection could be a stroke of genius, a possible long-term solution to a long-term problem. It's apparent that Timoney isn't seen as anything more than cover and there isn't a strong candidate to replace VDF coming through. Or it might be a case of taking a player who's world-class in one position and making him decent-ish in another… if he's playing against McReight and Valetini, we should find out something either way.

    The Henshaw selection is what it is. It's not very exciting or forward-looking but he's not nearly as bad as is always made out on here.



  • Administrators Posts: 56,565 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    he's not nearly as bad as is always made out on here.

    Yes, he is.

    The only reason he is getting picked now is based on his past, because it certainly has nothing to do with his present. Henshaw would never have broken into the Ireland team in the past with performances like the ones he is showing.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Henshaw was decent against Japan, but he absoulutely has been very poor for the last 6 or 7 months at least. His pace is completely gone and he is struggling at 12 - he is going to massively struggle defending at 13.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,699 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    The fact that none of the young centres has been given a shot this series is ridiculous. I'm happy Farrell got a shot, and should be playing tomorrow over Henshaw. Anyone of Gavin, Postlewaithe or Cooney ought to have been given gametime. Ringrose is no great shakes either frankly, and could do with some pressure.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,403 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I really fear an injury to stu would end up in a 12/13 of aki / henshaw. Running through treacle doesn't begun to be the description of their slowness.

    However if it turns into a dank slippy wet evening, it might be the perfect combo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,548 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Ringrose is a very good player. He may not be in form currently, but he’s been playing well as recently as the Lions tour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Cooney isn't ready yet, and hasn't shown enough IMO.

    Gavin looks a good raw prospect, with a good skillset, but the jury is out as to whether he's the right option still for the Connacht #13 shirt right now.

    Postlethwaite is to me a different category - he's a bit older (23, Cooney is 22, Gavin 21), quite a bit more experienced (34 games versus 9 and 12 respectively), and has starts in Europe under his belt. He's shown up well for the A side when given the chance, and he has the kind of unique physical dimensions (he's listed as 6ft 4, 106kgs, seems to have a good skillset and a good turn of pace).

    TBC - Gavin has the physical attributes too, but he's a more raw prospect generally.

    I think the only viable one of the three to have been involved in the senior squad this November was Postlethwaite, but he's only played 152 mins this season for Ulster (had injury issues earlier this year).

    I would have loved to see him added to the wider training squad following his good performance in Spain, but it was unlikely to see him jump from that to straight into the team this week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,087 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I think he's had good and bad games in 2025, like pretty much every Ireland player, but the good get ignored and the bad get blown way out of proportion.

    I'd rather be seeing him at 12 too, by the way, it has always been his best position, but Tom Farrell didn't make a compelling case for himself last week, Osborne is injured and I'd definitely prefer to see Henshaw over Aki at 13, so by process of elimination, here we are. Is it exciting? No. Do people need to chill a bit? Absolutely.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Tom Farrell may not have made a compelling case, but neither has Henshaw over the last year. His performance against Japan was the best I've seen from him in Green or Blue in a year and it was mostly just decent.

    I'm perfectly chill about it, and remain hopeful we'll find out in 10 minutes that it isn't true anyway, but I think it is a massive mistake that Australia will be able to expose pretty badly.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭50HX


    A stop gap at 15 meant that a completely new midfield was never going to happen esp with the lack of clarity as to who the ultimate 10 is as well.

    There is a reason why head coaches revert to tried & trusted even though we may not agree with it



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