Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

alot of those minutes werent at 10, which was my point. against scotland and wales he was at full back (technically he came on for a winger) and against france he was in the centre. JC came off for SP at 65 mins against italy and came on for SP at 60 mins against England. Without getting into minute calculations, SP was given just under 3 full games more than JC at 10 during the 6Ns

But he wasn’t, he regularly failed to in the 6N last year…it’s where Scotland’s 2nd try came from…and no, he may have been way better 15 years ago at it, today no he isn’t.

He’s also bigger than Healy btw.

And like I said, Boyle’s scrummaging isn’t any worse than Healys. But it seems the younger players are held to far higher standards than the incumbents…probably why so few get a look in. I watched Healy throughout the 6N…I’ve yet to see anything you’ve mentioned. And no, he isn’t a competent scrummager…the reason he stayed is because we don’t have the balls to move on these players because they are “legends” and this was another example.

Like I said, it wasn’t because of his “weakness” because if it was Healy wouldn’t have been selected either. Simple, Paddy is better than him but Paddy wasn’t fit last season…so you can make that TWO young LH’s that are better than Healy.

I’m pretty sure that I don’t give a sh!t FWIW!

No because I have two eyes and can see with those two eyes that Boyle is better than Healy. Funny enough, when Leinster p!ssed away the Champions Cup due to their sentimentalism they learned their lesson and dropped Healy for Boyle for the rest of the season…at least they woke up in the end and saw what was infront of them all along, if only they did so earlier.

Paddy has been backed, but do you think he would be if Healy was around? Not a chance.

Let’s not forget it was Healy’s miss tackle that led to the first Northampton try last year also.

agreed if take all of the games from the autumn internationals last year up until and including the summer internationals this year, its roughly 60:40

however, i think in this case it makes more sense to take it from the australia game forward as that was the game that JC was dropped to the bench for and SP became the starter (they each were also not in the squad for one of the other games with frawley as the bench option so that skews it a little bit). since then, its been 71:29 in terms of minutes at 10 in favour of SP.

realistically you could also take the portugal game out of it (seeing as it was ultimately a relatively pointless game overall) and it increases to 81:19 in favour of SP (although he wasnt in the squad for that one)

so i agree that just looking at it in terms of autumn - 6Ns - summer then it is 60:40, but looking at it since SP effectively 'took over' its a bit different

So Taking the minutes from the exact moment that would have the worst ratio for Crowley?

If you take it from this time last week its 85:15 Crowley

Not that it matters. The eye test and common sense tells you the time and responsibility has been divided pretty fairly with each getting more time when hes been first choice. They'll split this autumn and whoever is ahead in the pecking order come 6 Nations will get the majority. It Being professional sport and grown men we're talking about

You literally quoted a post where I listed what Conan and Doris have won in the game of rugby.

For all his try-scoring exploits, what has Coombes won in comparison?

It’s obviously completely flawed to compare individual trophy hauls in what is ultimately a team game.

I wasn't aware I was under obligation to respond to everyone…

Neither was I.

I've been arguing with those who think Coombes should be playing for well over 24 hours now. I'm bored of it because nobody is actually putting forward any compelling reason as to why other than he's the latest shiny toy.

Correct rugby is a team game, which shows one individual's try-scoring exploits don't matter a jot when he's won very little. The reason why those ahead of him in the pecking order have won more trophies is because they are vastly superior rugby players and they contribute more to the team game.

Can we move on now? Or are we all just going to argue a toss even though the facts of the matter have been put on display multiple times over the last couple of days? Pages upon pages across two threads about one player who simply does not improve the Ireland team.

What did Boyle do or not do that some believe he is now on the scrap heap?

This is something which is rarely acknowledged. Porter's scrummaging is a massive issue and has been since before the RWC. It cost us big time in the quarter final and I think he was in the top three for penalised players in Europe last season and the one before. Now people can say that he is unfairly effed but that doesn't matter. What matters is that the issue has yet to be corrected. That is a serious indictment of Fogarty and the management in general. I consistently see him named as one of our world class players by supporters but you can't be categorised as such if you fail at the most basic requirement of your position.

Crowley only got in because he got gametime on the emerging Ireland tour due to injuries. Subsequent injuries saw him parachuted into the test side. But for that he wasn't getting selected.

Boyle hasn't done anything wrong, nor have I seen anyone condemning him to the scrap heap. He's a promising young loose head that has been exposed to test rugby, probably before he's ready, due to a lack of other options. He has the potential to establish himself at that level, but we've seen that he still has a lot of growing to do, especially at the scrum. He struggled a lot against Wales in the most recent Six Nations. It's a very small sample, but from what I've seen of Paddy McCarthy, he's a more destructive scrummager. Think the former will probably get in ahead of McCarthy this weekend though.

I'm a Leinster fan and have seen the struggles Healy had at managing more than 30 minutes against top quality opposition in blue or green. But he was still the best option as Porter's replacement. Cullen and Farrell have both recognised that and have given more minutes to other loose heads. But they still weren't/aren't ready.

There has been a massive failure amongst the three other provinces at developing quality loose heads in the last 15 years aside from Dave Kilcoyne. Since 2010 really, the loose head scene has been dominated by Cian Healy, Jack McGrath and Andrew Porter. It's unfortunate that McGrath had to retire relatively young. He's still only 35 and could have been a better bridge between the current generation and the next gen than Healy was.

Porter is 29, but there's a dearth of quality either 5 years above him or 5 years below. Which is why we've had to go even younger to Boyle and McCarthy. Farrell was criticised for experimenting with selecting Tom O'Toole at loose head rather than his established position at tight head. But that's more down to the lack of any options amongst the 25 and above cohort.