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Who actually wants the Dublin Airport passenger cap abolished?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CardF


    Dublin is functionally full. See "functionally" above.

    So strained in its infrastructure, resources, or services that it cannot effectively accommodate further growth.

    You can squeeze 5 million, 10 million more people in, in terms of density. Theres plenty of space.

    You just can't cater for them. You cant supply them with housing or utilities or sufficient roads, school places or doctors.

    Demand for housing, transport, and healthcare outstrips supply. National deficit of ~250,000 homes.

    Overcrowded Luas and Dart. Low doctor and teacher availability. Weekly housing protests. House prices increased by 8.1% in the 12 months to the end of March 2025. 70% of national water infrastructure is outdated. Slow/no response from Gardai and other emergency services.

    We're never joining nato. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Overcrowded Luas and Dart are being addressed. Doctors are more available in Dublin than in other urban centres.

    It is more efficient and climate friendly to supply the infrastructure within the existing spread.

    Yes, there won't be as many three bed semis with gardens big enough for trampolines, but we will become more European in outlook.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CardF


    Great. Dublin is still functionally full.

    Congested, yes. Lack of housing, yes. Lack of school places, yes. Outdated water infrastructure, yes. Insufficient gardai, yes. Planning/Judicial/Bureaucracy delays, yes. Pesistant hospital bed shortages, yes. Prisons over capacity, yes. Electricity, not over capacity yet but on the way.

    Its more efficient to just not put more people in the city in the first place. Even tourists will add to the burden on roads, water, and numbers gardai must patrol.

    We're never joining nato. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,890 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Dublin is not "functionally full", Dublin is a low density European city with plenty of space to build out, up and to expand it's infrastructure. They are currently striving to build more accommodation towards the centre of Dublin (this is most efficient as the services are already here for people reducing the need for infrastructure) as well as building out it's suburbs, the population will likely continue to increase (will ebb and flow with the global economy), this will require constant expansion of the airport as well.

    Dublin's environs is already expanding towards the rest of Leinster, that will continue, Meath, Kildare etc. will continue developing.

    "Dublin is full" is a dog whistle for xenophobes because it's absolutely factually not true and only spouted by xenophobes or people not smart enough to understand infrastructure and planning, which puts you in a tricky position.

    edit: I also see you've been banging this nonsense in multiple threads and continually get your arse handed to you and having a really weird hang up about the population in Dublin continuing to grow and the M50.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CardF


    Space is not the issue. There's room for a million in the phoenix park and the beaches. Doesn't mean they can have shelter, proper transport, water, electricity, policing, healthcare, schooling. All of which are under severe strain.

    Yes Dublin is functionally full. And adding more arrivals will only make it worse. Dog whistle or cat trombone or whatever you're having yourself, or not.

    I'm just relaying facts. Your dispute is with the truth. I have great facts. The best facts, I have the best facts, everyones saying it.

    Sad that you would stalk me around other threads. Very sad. Low energy.

    We're never joining nato. 😁



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,594 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Ah yes - the denial of being angry, while starting with JFC and SFA

    But here again we have the myth that flying is "cheaper in the vast majority of cases", while your "vast majority of cases" is the incredibly narrow and unlikely scenario I've outlined. In fact, you yourself actually disproved your own point when you mentioned London City - but you've quietly ignored that now it doesn't suit your own argument since I showed you the price of a ticket there. Heathrow is also more expensive.

    4.5 million may fly to London each year - but how many do so for a day trip, to Stansted, with no baggage, not getting an onward transfer from the airport, not eating on the trip, at a time when prices are at the lowest?

    So you haven't shown anything "time and again" - other than that you've picked a very narrow set of restrictions and deemed that "the vast majority of cases", because in other cases your argument doesn't actually hold.

    Then the food argument gets sillier each time - it's a proper internet "Dig up, stupid" moment now. You've quietly ignored your comment of free food at your destination, and now say your food is free because you're at home - but you're not at home? You're on a trip to London? i mean, if that's the hill you want to die on, I'll bring a packed lunch on the overland trip.

    You've not included the cost of the transfer from Stansted - you've talked about how overland is triple the cost of flying, which only works out when, in addition to the above limitations (no bags, etc), you also don't include the transfer price.

    The time comparison isn't 8 hours v 15 hours - again, I've shown you that. You were taking 30 minutes to get from the plane in Stansted to the city centre - but it's 80-90 minutes. Flying is still quicker, I'm not arguing that, but it's no reason for you to make up stuff, and stick to that even when I've shown it's wrong.

    And indeed, if you're really so self-centred that your time is the only thing that concerns you, then that Wimbledon meeting should be a Zoom call. Everybody wins - definitely quicker, cheaper and less emissions.

    You've also quietly ignored the other points I've called you up on, such as carbon emissions from a plane not being really known (not true), how I didn't show the comparison emissions for overland (not true), the free food at your destination (which I repeat because of how bizarre it is), and so on.

    A SailRail ticket is comparable in price to flying in all but the extreme edge cases such as you've flagged.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,722 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Dublin infrastructure is really struggling congestion, public transport, housing, water supplies. School places, medical services, hospital beds, GPs. You'd have to head buried in the sand to deny that. M50 is a car park a lot of the time. That Dublin commuter belt is heading to the midlands makes it's own argument. Airport carparks are further and further away from it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,890 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    You're not spouting any facts.

    You get told facts and then come back with

    "Dublin is full, the M50", across multiple threads, rinse and repeat, it's pretty pathetic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CardF


    Dublin is functionally full.

    And the m50 is above capacity.

    Not my fault if certain people cant accept these facts and get all wound up about them. Not very smart. They're not smart people.

    We're never joining nato. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 440 ✭✭CoffeeImpala


    Is the M50 above capacity at the times the additional passengers are likely to be added?

    The road is very free flowing for the vast majority of the day and I'd say Dublin airport is near the limit of its capacity during the rush hours.

    By international standards Dublin is a very low density city so I don't understand how it could be described as functionally full. There's still plenty of space for new development.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CardF


    3rd most congested city in europe. (I would expect 1st any time theres a major gig on)

    Insufficient gardai. 140 fewer Gardaí in the Dublin division compared to 2020. No dedicated transport police. (fc schalke were able to have their parade of thuggery just off the capitals main street completely unopposed).

    Shortage of tourist accommodation. avg 83.4pc occupancy rate, the highest across 35 European countries. Demand consistently outpacing supply. (again, any big gig on you're getting fleeced if you're lucky)

    Student accommodation crisis. And construction planning crisis for the buildings which could help to alleviate these crises.

    Rising homelessness. Tents appearing along the canals again.

    Ringsend water treatment operating at max/above max capacity.

    85% dependency on 1 water source (liffey).

    Moratorium on certain industrial projects due to strained electric grid, aged electric infrastructure. Emergency power generators imported.

    Shortage of hospital beds, consultants and a+e staff. Exodus of nurses.

    Data from July 2025 revealed that more than 26,000 patients nationally spent at least 24 hours in an ED during the first six months of the year. Mater Hospital issued a public plea for people to avoid its emergency department.

    Shortage of prison places. Man with 123 convictions avoids prison. After pleading guilty to 15 charges. Real headline. many similar. Lack of staff, outdated facilities, reduced rehabilitation capacity.

    Childcare waiting list at 13,500. With costs among the highest in Europe.

    Insufficient school places, high class sizes, teacher exodus.

    Rise in derelict and vacant sites.

    Luas and dart overcrowded.

    and the occasional riot.

    … but low density lads.

    We're never joining nato. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,128 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Build in the parks and beaches? Ridiculous strawman.
    Ignoring the fact that it was pointed out that low density Dublin has the capacity to build up.


    It has nothing like the density of London or Paris, it also lacks similar transport systems like both of those. So when the transport system that a step forward in Dublin with the Metro, it's fairly obvious that Dublin will cease to be the 3rd most congested city in Europe. I'd have thought that progression was obvious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,890 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Dublin is a low density city with plenty of capacity to grow.

    The M50 capacity has improved by minimum of 50% since the original cap was set.

    Neither of those two statements will ever not be true and can be used against every single post you make, because you are factually wrong and likely pursuing this argument because you are xenophobic ("x is full") rather than being unable to understand the facts.

    Do say if you don't understand and it can be explained simpler, otherwise your opinion is invalid as its driven by bias against others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CardF


    Misquote, and even then it wouldn't be a strawman. You don't know what 'strawman' means. You shouldn't use words you don't understand.

    The transport system would want to be in place before it takes 'that step forward'. But its not and it won't be.

    Your best case scenario is that Dublin might one day only be 4th most congested city.

    We're never joining nato. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CardF


    Where are we going to put all these arrivals? Tourist accommodation is already the highest across 35 European countries.

    Student accommodation crisis. Homeless crisis. Building crisis. Asylum seekers aplenty. And rent crisis. And planning is all jammed up. And lack of construction workers.

    Its not xenophobia to understand that this just won't work out well.

    We're never joining nato. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,871 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Stuff is being built in Dublin, that will help.

    And remember the beneficiaries of the removal of the cap won't just be in Dublin, they'll be all throughout Leinster. 2.8+ million people having more flights to more places.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,128 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I used the quote function (which you struggle with). It's a direct unedited quote.
    You are using the ridiculous example of "room for a million in the phoenix park and the beaches" (directly quoting), to represent the point as it is easily knocked down. That is literally a strawman fallacy. If you disagree, you don't understand the meaning of the word.

    The irony oy say not to use words you understand. I you forgetting your embarrassing infer fisaco.

    The transport system would want to be in place before it takes 'that step forward'. But its not and it won't be.

    The upgrades to the airport transfer infrastructure will take place before the terminal updates.
    It's trivial to make that a condition of approval.
    The metro is intended to be complete by 2033/34. The long term plan for the airport goes to 2035, 2040 and 2050.

    Once again, you ignorance highlights exactly why expanding Dublin airport is both require and feasible.

    Your best case scenario is that Dublin might one day only be 4th most congested city.

    Given you lack of knowledge of what's involved, you guesstimate of the infrastructure is entirely worthless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,890 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Hotel occupancy is at about 80% with thousands of new rooms being added every year.

    https://www.dublineconomy.ie/insights/the-outlook-for-dublins-hotel-market-18312/

    AirBNB capacity is even greater.

    https://www.airroi.com/report/world/ireland/county-dublin/dublin

    Tourists also mostly use public transport and won't be adding to the congestion but will be bringing money into the economy enabling future growth (uh oh, you might not like that).

    Given the facts to the contrary, do you now retract your statements? (Particularly the "is full" dogwhistle)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CardF


    "Build in the parks and beaches?" - From your post 373 to me.

    Words I never said. So misquote.

    "room for a million in the phoenix park and the beaches" (directly quoting)" - there you go, you managed it without adding bits this time. the context being a discussion about density and lack of facilites for people.

    Space is not the issue. (this bit is a counter argument). There's room for a million in the phoenix park and the beaches. (this bit is my own argument).

    So not its not a strawman. A strawman would be something like 'you want them all to live in the phoenix park'.

    DAA is looking to increase the cap imminently, with some expecting a significant increase in traffic by 2026. Not 2035.

    As ever, all facts you dislike ignored completely. Random stuff made up. Misquotes, weird tactics, finding weird interpretations of one thing to mean another, hypocrisy, saltiness. Just impossible.

    We're never joining nato. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CardF


    From your own source "However, YTD September hotel occupancy is clearing 80% across Dublin, a European high and clearly demonstrating a market that has capacity constraints.

    "Compression nights (occupancy >95%) are evident and are mainly being driven by transient leisure demand, particularly around major sporting, entertainment and cultural events. These compression nights are a symptom of supply struggling to meet demand"

    Exactly as I was pointing out. Hotels struggling to meet demand. Highest demand rate among 35 european countries.

    AirBnB capacity is available, but good luck with that in the middle of a student accommodation crisis, a homeless crisis, high demand for asylum seeker places, and high demand for rentals. (a turn off for long term investment since workers cant find housing). And demand spikes like major sports, music events.

    The shortage of hotel places and the planning to alleviate these shortages by building rooms predates the recent campaign to remove the cap. So are these thousands of rooms going to be any help as regards increased cap related arrivals, I doubt it.

    "Dublin will require 1,725 new hotel bed spaces a year up to 2030" acc to rte, with no mention of the cap in the report.

    Department of housing reporting a shortage of 14,000 construction workers per year. So a miracle is already needed as regards building sufficient hotel space.

    Given that your link only supports what I said do you want to try (and fail) again.

    Or should we move on to the next fact, that we wont have sufficient policing to patrol a high increase in tourists, or the facilities to care for them as the hospitals are also way over capacity. Our over capacity courts and our over capacity prisons allowing offenders to walk free.

    Or should we go to the mound and goon over planes.

    We're never joining nato. 😁



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,890 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The data literally show existing and growing capacity, your reading of it is bizarre and irrational, you are being shown real world facts that show your beliefs to be wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,732 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If hotels have capacity constraints then the flights won't be full and the problem will fix itself. There is no need to artificially cap them, just let the market do its job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,722 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    He didn't write the article he quoted.

    "These compression nights are a symptom of supply struggling to meet demand"

    If any one had read it they would have noticed this nugget.

    "…The decision on the Dublin airport cap will be critical to future tourism performance. With demand for air travel expected to continue rising and with Dublin being the main access point, a continued cap at Dublin Airport, will have a detrimental impact on Ireland’s ability to grow tourism"

    "…Hosting displaced Ukrainians and others seeking international protection is taking tourist accommodation stock out of the market that would otherwise be available tourism…"

    Of course an article written by Failte Ireland is going to promote Tourism regardless of cost. That's its job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,128 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    “Build in the parks and beaches?" - From your post 373 to me. 

    Words I never said. So misquote. 

    There’s no quotation marks on that in post 373. It was a (rhetorical) question. It was obviously paraphrased. Interpreting it as a direct quote, in order to have a whinge is incredibly fragile.

    Nobody suggested building in the park. Nor would doing so affect the density of Dublin City. The fact there is no “shelter, proper transport, water, electricity…” there is irrelevant (those were quotation marks btw).

    Increasing the population density means increasing the density of dwellings and services. That shouldn’t need explaining tbh.

    DAA is looking to increase the cap imminently, with some expecting a significant increase in traffic by 2026. Not 2035.

    By how much are they looking to increase to, imminently?

    I recall you said you didn’t want to reduce back to the cap, that current were sufficient for Dublin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CardF


    1 man. 1 sq km.

    population density: 1 per sq km.

    add 1 man.

    population density: 2 per sq km.

    Mr O’Brien said the number of passengers passing through the airport was likely to exceed 36 million this year. - Irish times.

    We're never joining nato. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CardF


    the hotel shortages have caused extortionate prices. theres a planning backlog and a construction staff shortage. the market is abnormal and bad for competition and the customer. why shouldn't the govt interfere.

    and the DAA, which seeks to increase flights, is semi-state too. so this is about more than the market, this involves the govt.

    those flying in may book the rooms first, leaving people in ireland with business and leisure plans without accommodation options. so what would be the benefit to the population of this higher flight capacity.

    We're never joining nato. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CardF


    the capacity wont keep pace with the demand.

    how many asses do i have to kick at 1 time. im like bruce lee in here.

    We're never joining nato. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,128 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    That 1+1 only works in the area is the same. If you talking about developing parks are beaches not currently within city, then the new population is divided by a bigger area. 1/1=2/2. And unless the new area match the density of existing there is a net drop. As I said, it's a ridiculous, irrelevant, fallacy.

    Mr O’Brien said the number of passengers passing through the airport was likely to exceed 36 million this year. - Irish times.

    The cap is a planning condition, it’s not based on passenger numbers (which are currently above the cap)
    I asked if you knew what increase was proposed. If you are agaisnt it, I assume you know what it is. If not, you're opposition is pretty shallow.

    As you don't seem to be consistent in you opposition.

    • First, you are against the cap increase. Dublin is full etc.
    • Pointed out that the cap is exceed currently, then suddenly this market share is sufficient
    • And now, it's back to no increases. It can't handle it, etc.

    What exactly do you think the cap should be next year? Simple question. Assume there infrastructure has no upgrade.
    What is the proposal, imminently or otherwise, that you are objecting to?
    Those two questions are very simple, and anyone struggle to answer should e taken seriously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,890 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Capacity is growing at ~10% per year (per supplied figures), the cap is curtailing growth.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CardF


    "That 1+1 only works in the area is the same." Oh I see. And when did this rule come in?

    Ideally, I think the increase in flights should be minimal, I'm objecting to the proposed massive spike in flights into Dublin.

    Have you actually done anything in this thread that could be considered an unprompted positive counterargument for any potential benefit of increased flights? You know, the topic of the thread.

    Or has your sole offering been this distraction campaign, following and barraging me with endless questions about prior answers, like some kind of salty hydra.

    (why didn't you answer my 27th question. you shouldn't be taken seriously. etc). Maybe contribute something non-me related if you can, or do I have a stalker.

    We're never joining nato. 😁



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