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How much longer will FF last?

  • 05-10-2025 10:16PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 560 ✭✭✭


    Tonight’s news about Gavin’s withdrawal is a surprise, even though he never had a realistic shot at winning. It says much more about FF than it does about him. Something that has been pondered for over a decade and which I think should really be front and centre now is fundamentally what is the point in the existence of this party?

    FF ruled ROI electorally for so long because they had the perfect blend of rural conservatism and urban capitalism. Nowadays what do they have? What do they stand for?

    In the Martin years they have gone into an ideological black hole. There is nothing separating them from FG or SF on social policy, foreign policy and largely on economic policy as well. They are a nonentity in terms of distinct politics.

    Once the gombeen rural voters who vote FF because their parents and grandparents before them did or because a FF councillor got a pothole fixed 35 years ago die off, who is going to vote for them?



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭Simi


    I never understood why people voted for them in the first place, but the same could be said of all major Irish parties. They're all populists devoid of any idelogy to speak of. It's not a good thing, but it's not necessarily a bad thing either, it does avoid the polarisation seen in other countries, potentially bouncing from hard right to left every election cycle. At the same stage I wish they had at least some principles on which to differentiate them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭dmakc


    MM stands for talking about Gaza/Israel to distract from his own shortcomings. The rest of FF just fall in line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,871 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Irish political parties tend to be more adaptable to the needs and wants of their potential electorate, MMs Fianna Fail is a completely different animal to Devs FF back in the day, because it's a different Ireland.

    This too shall pass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭George White


    I fear THAT if Jim O'Callgahn takes over, that will tip them over into being an Irish version of Keir Starmer's Blue Labour.

    Jim O'Callaghan is also a bit gendercritical (I wrote letters to him saying we shouldn't follow the UK on the Cass report, which he disagreed with, and then chastised me for calling 'mildly gender critical people transphobes'. I've been called mildly gender critical myself, so I feel that if I'm considered mild, Christ knows what he's considered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 560 ✭✭✭dublincc2


    If anything the second paragraph is one of the few positive things he has going for him. The whole gender thing is toxic to the electorate.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,746 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ff will be absolutely fine for some time, both ffg will keep each other propped up for a long time to come, maintaining their blocking position of any alternative government from being formed, tis all good, storm in the ould tea!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭almostover


    Ok so the question is being asked about how long will the largest political party based on the number of seats in the Dáil and the number of local councillors, not to mention the joint highest number of MEPs (tied with FG) will last? Yes, their large majority has waned significantly but they are still the largest force in Irish politics. Even considering that they bankrupted the country in the late noughties. I think a crap presidential campaign will be chicken feed to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 156 ✭✭Pat734


    FF is going nowhere really but I'm afraid a part of it, ie, Micháel Martin is on his way out. His reign has been dictatorial to put it mildly, but the list of replacements for the position is zilch. Both FF and FG are lacking in any sort of strong leadership candidates, the electorate has completely changed over the years, hence the strong Independent vote. Those Indo votes going to those who left the FF and FG parties and no one doing anything about it. Martin will be history and there's going to be a fight over it, more will leave and it won't be nice. Too many people in positions that have blurred minds and entitlements. The day of reckoning has come, Martin goes but more will go along with him, they're not wanted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,284 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There's zero polling to support your claims; and more importantly, this isn't the UK.

    We have the self ID rules the UK has lost their minds over for a decade now already.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    So Martin isn't going anywhere, and neither are FF.

    Martin will step down as leader following his time as Taoiseach. That will allow a new leader two years until the next election. We will see changes, the worldwide trend is rightward on social issues like gender and immigration. FF will follow that trend. Expect the rhetoric on a united Ireland to be dialled up, but little in the way of actual action. Possibly absorb a smaller party like II or Aontu as well.

    The interesting question is whether that will be enough to keep it up there to the forefront. Outside of Dublin, they could have a seat in every constituency.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,284 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There is only one non-Dublin constituency they don't have a seat in (Tipperary South). They consider a seat in every constituency (not just outside Dublin) that to be a baseline target, not a stretch goal, and Martin has got a lot of criticism for failing to get that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Well, yes, but in answer to the OP, that ability to take a seat in every constituency outside of Dublin is going nowhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭George White


    What I find interesting is my cousin (who knows I'm GNC) has been gendering Barbie Khardashian as female, calling them she. (She was warning me, believing that Khardashian may be preying on other trans people). I was astonished that she was using 'she', especially when her dad is the only real actively gendercritical (i.e. 'Linehan's right') person I know. She takes after her mum, though, rather than her dad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭z80CPU
    SPOIL YOUR VOTE


    As minister for justice Jim O'Callaghan has been a model FF " mudguard " minister: just take the cr@p, do nothing and don't escalate it higher.

    Back when Charlie Haughy was taoiseach he had his cabinet photographed each with their microphone which did not work.

    I feel Jim would have fitted in just fine back then. Jim reminds me of Ruadhri O'Hanlon the then FF minister for health and boy did he take some flak but didn't do much about it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭George White


    My own personal experience with O'Callaghan is he's socially forty years behind too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,320 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    I personally think MM wants to hang on as long as possible.(edit)

    Post edited by freshpopcorn on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    O'Cuiv is a fossilised relic. Nobody within FF pays any attention to what he says anymore. Together with Willie O'Dea and John McGuinness, they are the bitter men of the past. Their political philosophy is so last century and hasn't been updated for the modern world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,520 ✭✭✭yagan


    The auld cage rattler John McGuinness opining on the radio today that the party should change leader in the not too distant future. McGuinness is a pretty secure dynasty seat in Kilkenny with his own grassroots following so he won't pull punches with Martin.

    It does seem like the party is stacked with 2011 survivors, many who might not rerun in the next election, so they'll want a clear out to clear the decks for their successors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,658 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    McGuinness is a spoofer. If he had any guts he'd have challenged Martin years ago, instead of just talking about it.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,520 ✭✭✭yagan


    He's not interested in challenging for the leadership himself, but I reckon he fancies himself as a king maker. So if a heave is to happen no harm being at the forefront of a new lineup, especially when you might be handing over to the next generation of the dynasty at the next election.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,447 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    John Lahart TD agrees with his colleague John McGuinness that there must be a discussion about the leadership. Someone open the knife drawer!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 388 ✭✭notwhoyouthink


    Cards on the table - I have been an FF voter for many years. I supported them back in 2011 when they were at their lowest ebb, and I have continued to support them. I think MM is a stateman, and has an unbeatable political CV. There is no politician in the Dail today that can match his breadth of experience - Taoiseach twice, Tanaiste, Minister of Foreign Affairs (Twice), Minister for Education, Minister for Health, and Minister for Enterprise. He navigated the country well through some of the most difficult periods of COVID. He ran a great election in 2024, both local and general.

    The reason I write all this is that it surprises me to hear that there is talk of a heave, for two reasons. First, we are four years out from an election - so this isn't election nerves. Second, as far as I am aware there is no challenger - Jim O Callaghan has made no indications he is looking to challenge MM, and I don't think he would win even if he did. If you are an FF minister or junior minister are you really going to rock the boat?

    McGuinness is a spoofer - I have no time for the man. Empty vessels make the loudest noise. John Lahart is normally more reserved so his comments surprised me - but he has never been promoted to ministerial rank, so this may explain his motivation. James O'Connor is agitating for a cabinet position under a new regime. Naive. According to Ivan Yates, there seems to be a belief among a minority of FF backbenchers that MM can be replaced by Christmas. I disagree with Yates - MM is not in peril so long as he has full support of the cabinet.

    Yes, the Gavin situation was a debacle. Stupid - no political experience, but worse yet no vision and no clear agenda. I like Jim Gavin, and I would have voted for him, but this was a terrible, terrible decision. Poor judgment? Yes? A resigning matter? No!!!!!

    MM is not perfect. He needs to re-engage with the party, the back benchers, and grass roots. Maybe he also needs to tone down the lecturing in the Dail he gives the opposition. But he is FF's best chance to stay in government after 2029. Jim O'Callaghan is an unknown quantity - he has limited experience, and I honestly don't know what he represents. To his credit, he is turning around justice - but let's see the results in two years. I like Chambers, but I have yet to see any substance. Brown and Lawless are promising, and O'Brien could be a contender, but housing will likely hold him back. I don't know enough about Calleary to say anything. There are some good junior ministers - Thomas Byrne, Niamh Smyth, among others.

    I suspect that MM will lead the party through at least 2026, and if there is a serious challenge it will occur towards the end of 2026 or beginning of 2027. I don't believe MM will continue on after his period of Taoiseach, and my guess is he will stand down as leader then. But I could be wrong because there is no EU Commissioner opportunity until 2029, and the next Aras race will be in 2032.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,636 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


     I don't believe MM will continue on after his period of Taoiseach, and my guess is he will stand down as leader then.

    If that is his intention surely he'll make it known well in advance, to forestall the possibility of being dragged out kicking & screaming…



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