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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,931 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    But we aren't doing that, we're treating the November Internationals like they are a competition



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,613 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Coombes is the real outlier in this dataset, but at this point on him we have to just conclude that there is something more to that non-selection that those of us on the outside aren't aware of. I agree (and have been in agreement for some time) that his performances warrant inclusion in the wider squad, and while I'd rank him behind Doris and Conan for a must win game starting today, I don't think I'd rank another 8 ahead of him right now (even Gleeson who I'm very high on), and think he should have gotten more minutes over recent years.

    Of the other guys you mentioned - I rate Dave McCann really highly, but to my knowledge he hasn't yet featured in even a training squad, and didn't make either EI tour or the A game v England. He's started this season strongly, and I'd love to see him involved against Spain.

    I think on Ahern there has been a marked willingness / desire to include him, but his injuries at inopportune times have cost him dearly. He was called into the November squad back as far as 2021, and they intended to bring him on tour to SA in 2022 but injuries cost him both times. He was picked for the Ireland A squad in February and missed again through injury. He's not a guy I really think they can be criticised for hugely, as clearly they wanted to get him involved before now.

    Cian Prendergast is relatively similar - due to play v Wales in 6N and withdrawn on the morning of the game with illness (similar in summer tour v Georgia).

    I agree on the fact it was strange we used Doris & Beirne so much last November, especially v Fiji.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    Hodnett is another who's been very unlucky to miss out on a cap in recent years. Him and Kendellen mixed and matched last season but for me he's been the best openside behind Van der Flier for the past few seasons. He's a great carrier, strong over the ball, has a massive engine and is a very good link player (often used for plays off the back of the lineout). I think it's a lack of judgement on behalf of the Irish management that he's not been looked at and that they seem to be so invested in Kendellen. I think most Munster fans would have Hodnett ahead of him if they were asked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,356 ✭✭✭TRC10




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,060 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    2022/23 and the start of last season, I was all on the Hodnett train, but since think I think Kendellen has closed the gap. And is probably closer to the mold of VdF, if that's what Farrell is looking for. But I'd agree, another good example.



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,560 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    the coombes thing is weird, as its not exactly like he hasnt gotten the chance to shine in camp. heres a post from myself from previous.

    coombes has been in 2021 6 nations camp, 2021 summer series squad, 2021 autumn nations squad, 2022 6 nations squad, 2022 autumn nations camp, 2023 6 nations camp, 2023 summer nations squad and 2023 RWC camp.

    on top of that, Coombes was called into the ireland squad this year 2025 for the 6 nations ahead of round 3 game against wales, as cover for Doris. he was already in the 'A' squad during this competition. He was also obviously in the summer 2025 squad, and now hes in the Autumn 2025 nov series squad.

    so i count that as 11 different Ireland camps (not counting A squads)

    2024 here is the big outlier, not in any squad, and not featuring in the emerging ireland squad was a real head scratcher, unless you look at it as the coaches already knew what they needed to about him so he wasnt really an "emerging" player.

    So its incredibly difficult to argue that he hasnt been given a chance to impress in camp. Maybe hes just that type of player who just performs best at game time, though he has mixed reviews in green when playing. Personally right now, i think we need to be moving on from Conan and i think Coombes is a very good ready replacement. He has an agricultural playing style that i think any team in the world could benefit from. SOB had the same, and paid for it with his body. Coombes luckily doesnt seem to share SOBs physical robustness issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack



    I took a look as well, did it ever so slightly differently, I had a huge list made out at first but I decided to cut out it down to the most relevant players as likely options to keep it more realistic for having a good discussion around selection.
    I've left out any players that aren't featuring regularly for their province (injury or not being selected), or have been around a while and haven't yet shown the quality required, just to cut to the chase a bit to make the selection options more clear.

    Below is the current squad including recently injured players plus the 2 additional players called up, plus the four named unavailable injured players plus the three named to travel as cover.

    (Playing number), Ideal current age, Name (Bold if will be outside prime age for RWC'27) (current age) - Other likely options around prime age-bracket that should realistically be in with a shout for RWC'27.

    (1) 28, Porter (29), J Boyle (23), P McCarthy (22) - Loughman (30), Milne (26)
    I think Milne and Loughman are going to be sharing the starting role this season for Munster, both have performed well so far this season. Loughman perhaps better at scrummaging, Milne defintely better in the loose. Can only assume Farrell sees something special in Boyle and McCarthy to elevate them above those two. It might just be a decision between Boyle and Milne for second choice, and maybe McCarthy was chosen as third choice with a view to longer term planning.

    (2) 27, Sheehan (27), Kelleher (27), G McCarthy (22) - D Barron (27), Stewart (24)
    We have a very healthy profile at hooker at the moment. It seems they want to go a bit younger with third choice with a view to longer term planning.

    (3) 29, Furlong (32), Bealham (34), Clarkson (25) - Jager (30), Salanoa (27), O'Toole (27), Aungier (26), Wilson (23)
    Tighthead prop the older position to come into prime and peak, it's not impossible that Bealham will make the next World Cup, but chances are he won't. There are a number of options, perhaps the most exciting option is Salanoa but only time will tell how his recovery comes along.

    (4) 26, Ryan (29), Ahern (25), Izuchukwu (25) - Oisín Dowling (28), F Wycherley (27), N Murray (26)
    There are plenty of loosehead locks around so no panc, the depth is good within the squad at present.

    (5) 27, McCarthy (24), Henderson (33), E Edogbo (22) - Deeny (25), D Murray (24), Sheridan (24)
    There appears to be a bit of a gap in the age bracket above 25 for tighthead locks. There are a few promising locks coming through at the moment.

    (6) 26, Beirne (33), Baird (26), Prendergast (25) - P Boyle (28), McCann (25), Soroka (24)
    Blind side probably has the best depth of all positions.

    (7) 25, Van der Flier (32), Timoney (30) - Hodnett (26), Penny (26), Kendellen (24)
    Very little effort gone into spreading around the caps, Van der Flier is ever-present but will be 34 at RWC'27.

    (8) 25, Doris (27), Conan (33), B Gleeson (21) - Deegan (29), Coombes (27), Jansen (26), Culhane (23), McNabney (22)
    Conan will struggle to make it another 2 years, so we probably need to start seeing more rotation here. Jansen might be worth a closer look and has started and played the full 80 for Connacht so far this season.

    (9) 25, Gibson-Park (33), Casey (26), Blade (31) - B Murphy (24), Doak (23), Coughlan (23) Gunne (22)
    Should probably begin to move on from Blade and Gibson-Park sooner rather than later. Need to see some of the alternative options to give really good performances for their province this season. There is a good bit of competition for match-day spots across the provinces so it should help drive performances.

    (10) 26, Crowley (25), S Prendergast (22), Frawley (27) - H Byrne (26), J Murphy (21)
    Would like to see Harry Byrne give some performances to give another option here. Frawley may be better used in the centre. Jack Murphy starting for Ulster and on a winning run at the moment.

    (11) 23, Lowe (33), Stockdale (29), Bolton (25) - Ward (26), Kilgallen (25), Smith (25),
    I can't see Lowe making it to RWC'27. there are a few decent options there, plus a few more that are younger but haven't got enough game time to really evaluate their potential properly.

    (12) 26, Aki (35), McCloskey (33) - Forde (24), Kelly (24)
    Good quality coming through so no panic, Frawley also an option here.

    (13) 25, Ringrose (30), Henshaw (32), T Farrell (32) - Hume (27), Ralston (25), Postlethwaite (23), Gavin (21)
    There aren't a lot of 13's that are screaming for inclusion at the moment. Tom Farrell playing the best rugby but doubtful he will be as good in two years' time. Players need to start proving themselves with their provinces.

    (14) 23, Hansen (27), T O'Brien (27), Nash (28) - Baloucoune (28), Mullins (23),
    Age prfile drifting a bit old, if they can maintain their speed then not too bad. Not a whole lot of speedy options at the moment.

    (15) 25, Keenan (29), Osborne (23), J O'Brien (28) - Daly (28), O'Connor (21)
    There aren't a lot of exciting fullbacks getting regular game time at any of the provinces. The age profile isn't too bad if they can stay injury-free.


    Taking the above, could be looking at a RWC side of:

    Porter, Sheehan, Clarkson,
    Ahern, McCarthy,
    Baird, Doris, Timoney,
    Casey, Crowley,
    Hansen, Henshaw, Ringrose, T O'Brien,
    Osborne.

    Kelleher, Boyle, Furlong, Ryan, Prendergast, Blade, Frawley, J O'Brien.

    We might be better off giving Jager some time instead of Bealham, and Cathal Forde or Ciarán Frawley instead of Aki or McCloskey, and Ben Murphy or Nathan Doak instead of Blade.
    Hugh Gavin may be an option to overtake Ringrose too but too soon yet for him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,060 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    and now hes in the Autumn 2025 nov series squad.

    He actually hasn't made the squad, syd. Which, imo, is an even bigger head-scratcher on the basis that Doris and Conan are basically coming in cold with zero rugby. (You'd have to presume Farrell thinks Timoney and Prendergast are options at 8 in the worst case scenario).



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,560 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    i think 30 - 31 being the upper end of the lock age band is a bit restrictive?

    Etzabeth has been nominated for WPOTY in the last two years at 32 and 33 years of age. Plenty of locks are RWC primed at 32 / 33



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,560 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    yeah my bad!! i automatically thought he'd been part of the latest call ups. I agree that he definitely should be, even if its simply just adding another number to the squad ie not an injury replacement. Not quite sure why Farrell restricted himself to 34 players. For example England and South Africa named 36 man squads.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 34,168 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I assume that he will add more players after the Chicago trip and the intention was to bring all the named squad on that trip so they wanted to somewhat cap it. But who knows really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    What about picking a team all from one province? Like, select 1-23 Ulster players. Or maybe provincial units anyway. Maybe Munster front row - Milne, D. Barron, Jager/Salanoa/Foxe; Munster second rows - Edogbo and O'Connell; Leinster back row - Soroka, Penny and Deegan; Ulster halves - Doak and Jack Murphy; Ulster centres - Postlethwaite and Hume.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    When you say McCann "didn't make either EI tour or the A game v England", do you mean he played in neither of the 2024 EI tour and the A game or are you saying he played in neither of the two EI tours of the past few years?

    He got called into the 2022 EI squad when Soroka got injured, and started v the Griquas and benched v the Pumas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,149 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Rassie thinks the (reported) suspension of Jan-Hendrik Wessels for (alleged) testicle-grabbing is a conspiracy to help Ireland beat the Boks.

    Johan Erasmus on X: "It just got tougher !! We now have to beat them on the field. and in the boardrooms. Hamba man. Tsek. Loop Kak" / X

    He really, really hates us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44 irishleeds


    There will be no major rotation I think this November. The world cup draw is done after them and we need to stay in the top 4 to give ourselves the best draw, which will hopefully lead to a favorable 1/4 final.

    Id even bet there's a good chance we will have our strongest possible 23 for 3/4 games and slight rotation for the Japan game.

    Remembering the absolute heartbreak of being in the Stade de France against New Zealand 2 years ago, I also complete back little rotation this window.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,613 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    They should help fuel his conspiracy theories by throwing another suspension at him for this. He's an absolute space cadet.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,560 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    we dont need to stay in the top 4, we only need to be in the top 6



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,060 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    This might be a reach on my part, but I wonder if there is anything to the idea that having a knock-out, last 16 round game might help Ireland psychologically of potentially winning a knock-out RWC game, to then help us get over our QF duck?

    Just hoping for a better draw, it's been super tough last the RWC's….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44 irishleeds


    Ah, I read something and made some general assumptions that turn out to be incorrect.

    Thanks for the trigger. We can rotate away.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 34,168 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl




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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,560 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    i have "war gamed" this by my calcuations we need Australia to win all their games (including against us) but lose one of the england or France games, and argentina to beat wales by 15+ and beat england and scotland, in order for us to be in trouble of falling into 7th spot.

    it would also mean us losing by 15+ to both NZ and SA and a loss to Australia.

    see above pdf.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭PMC83




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,060 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    True but we should have (theoretically) easier opposition this time, on account of it being a full round of 16. But still open to the vagaries of the draw…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,045 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 34,168 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Should be much easier yes. Whether it gets the monkey off the back I don't know - I suspect the "QF" issue will remain unfortunately.

    Is the draw for the QF set at the end of the group stage or does it depends on the outcome of the R16?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,918 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Putting a nebulous potential benefit for a qf draw over player development is exactly the wrong approach. We need to be focused on the players who can win a QF, before we worry about the draw.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭MangleBadger




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭daithi7


    Imho, the biggest hurdle to Ireland performing at their optimum at RWC Quarter finals has been Ireland's habitual lack of rotation & rest for the top 23 during the group stages. We've been "unlucky" at times with the RWC draws (☆) & scheduling e.g. facing France last in a brutal battle in the group stages in 2015, before facing a much fresher Argentina a week later, but other times e.g. at RWC23, we've been the sole authors of our own downfall imho.

    Regardless, Ireland have ended up coming into RWC QFs looking flat & a bit jaded, and end up losing to a fresher, more rested & less battle weary looking opposition from other countries. This has been painful to watch, particularly the occasions when it was largely avoidable like at RWC23!!

    Perhaps, the biggest advantage of the new draw & format for Ireland imho, is that assuming we win our group & have a reasonable last 16 opponent (I.e. maybe a side like Japan, but not an Argentina say), then Ireland will at last face an opposition side in the QF who are as played & battle weary as our players, as assumedly they will also have had to have their top 23 line out in the round of 16 the week before the QF. This will be a first for Ireland!

    So the draw & format may just compensate for Ireland's dumb (or coerced) propensity for over playing their top 23 at RWCs, versus more tactical opponents who have wisely rotated & rested more before QFs. At least in this new format most sides will have also played their top 23 the week before facing Ireland. That will be closer to a level playing field at QF stage- at last!! So we'll see!!!

    ☆ tbf to Ireland, the old RWC draw seeding system of seeding sides based on their previous RWC placing, did no favours to Ireland. It was a bit of a self fulfilling doom scenario for Ireland imho, who went out (often badly) at the RWC QF stage every RWC. As a result this often led to Ireland sharing a group with a top 4 seed & maybe a good tier 3 side also (e.g Argentina), which left Ireland chasing every other point in their RWC group to qualify after being beaten by the tier 1 side in their group e.g. RWC 03, 07 & 15 come to mind. This often left the squad over played, with some key players injured versus fresher opposition in a RWC QF. (E.g. v Argentina in RWC15 , etc, etc)

    Post edited by daithi7 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,613 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    We absolutely weren't flat and jaded going into the RWC QF in 2023 - we'd beaten South Africa in the group and put Scotland away in about 30 mins in our group.

    Our players had played less rugby in the 3 weeks before the game than the NZ team, who had lost a game to France already.

    There's nothing to support this at all IMO.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,151 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I don't really believe in the QF curse. It's just a coincidence. Being beaten by NZ in the last two WC QFs is nothing yo be ashamed of. Particularly the last one. They were just beaten and that's all.



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