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Israel/Palestine Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    No - what you're pointing out is what they said they thought they would do 5 months ago.

    It's remarkable, given the bile towards Palestinians for voting in Hamas (19 years ago), that you believe they should be prevented from voting in a democratic process for a decade.

    Perhaps Israelis should also be denied a vote and be made to keep their alleged War Criminal in charge until he completely destroys the nation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Your analysis is flawed for all the reasons previously posted. That's a rebuttal by the way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I'm not sure if you're missing the point made or if you're just incapable of actually getting the point.

    Hamas will not be part of any administration in Gaza, per the peace plan, so their name won't even be on any polling card - which you seem to be completely unable to grasp.

    Once again, to use your own metaphor, your credibility is underwater and as deep as the final resting place of the Titanic.

    Post edited by dmcdona on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,115 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Is there any difference between Israelis voting for terrorists and Palestinians voting for terrorists?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    But I’m asking you your opinion, and you’ve made clear you think it did happen.

    So if we assume you are correct that the famine was real, and was caused by Israel, then were you suggesting that these events would cause support for Hamas in Gaza to rise from 43% or to fall from that level?

    It shouldn’t be a difficult question for you to answer, given it’s about your own opinion.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Israel wanted to do a favour for Turkey and show them how much influence they had in the US.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    What did I think would happen? You seem to answering your own question yourself?

    If you read my answers to the poster I was conversing with and if you've read the "peace plan", you'll know that Hamas, and what Gazans think of them, is irrelevent. It's not difficult, as you say. You just need to read the posts.

    By the way, seeing as you haven't run away, do you still think that Gazans are a well fed and any photos of emaciation are just those with medical conditions? And presumably you think the same of the Israeli hostages - emaciation was owing to underlying medical conditions as those just released confirmed they were treated and fed well. A bit on the chubby side as you would say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    That’s not what Hamas thinks, but perhaps you know better than they do.

    Hamas also said it expected to have some future role in Gaza as part of "a unified Palestinian movement".

    Or perhaps you mean it doesn’t matter what Gazans want, since it seems Hamas have no intention of asking them anyway. They plan to take back power with no need for pesky and un Islamic democratic elections:

    For Hamas, there are now new priorities, and they do not involve giving up guns. Senior officials have already made this clear

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Seems you didn't bother reading your own source.

    According to the plan, Hamas - which seized control of Gaza in 2007 by ousting its rivals, a year after winning legislative elections - would play no future role in its governance, directly or indirectly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    You're forgetting who your challenging in these posts. People in this thread think Israel got what they deserved and October 7 was their own fault. They apportion no blame for October 7 to Hamas and it's allies. Everything was Israel's fault and if it happens again, it will be their fault again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I think it's fair to point out that Israel implemented the Hannibal Directive on Oct 7 multiple times (as confirmed by alleged War Criminal #2, at large, Yoav Gallant).

    That resulted in the deaths of scores of Israelis fleeing for their lives and trying to escape to safety.

    Not only did the attack helicopters shred many in the first wave, they returned to base, reloaded and returned to shred more.

    And many here have condemned Hamas repeatedly over the last two years.

    Seems you can't even condemn Israel for executing its own citizens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    Hamas won't just be part of it they will be in charge going on the Beijing Declaration which all the Palestinian groups signed up to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    I’m asking you to say what you think about it. Since you brought it up as having an effect on support for Hamas in Gaza. Surely you should be able to say what you expect that effect to be?

    And no I haven’t run away, I just see the point in arguing the same points over and over.

    But since you ask, I’ve seen dozens of posters of Gazans, none of whom seem to be starving. And if there’s a genocide, it’s the first time I’ve ever heard of a genocide that the victims celebrate and call a victory.

    I’ve seen injured Gazans being released from Israeli prisons alright but seeing that there was a war on, it’s quite likely they were injured when taken. We know Sinwar’s life was saved by surgery when he was in prison for torturing and murdering Palestinians - and we only know that because of how he thanked Israel for it.

    But I guess if you choose to believe terrorists I won’t be able to convince you otherwise.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    That doesn’t contradict my post in any way.

    What Trump’s peace plan says and what Hamas say are not actually identical.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,680 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    What about Bibi, Gallant, Ben Gvir, Skotherich and the War Cabinet ?? Should they be in the Israeli government going forward ??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Did you send your strongly worded letter to the ICJ telling them they are wrong?

    Maybe also drop a line to the ICC and tell them to rescind the arrest warrants for War Crimes for Netanyahu and Gallant (both currently on the run).

    However, you should know that supporting Genocide and War Crimes really isn't a very good look.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    The icj never found Israel guilty of committing genocide yet all the pro. Hamas crowd keep on saying the icj was wrong and that genocide occured. It's a funny old world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,942 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    The ICJ thus far has not yet ruled on the matter one way or another.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,680 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Why are Bibi and Gallant not speeding towards the ICC to prove themselves innocent ? Surely any man accused of War Crimes would want to prove their innocence. I just can't understand why an innocent man wouldn't want to prove his innocence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    You'll have to ask him that question. Perhaps direct it to the nearest Israeli embassy. I'm sure they'll pass it on for you.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    They said there was a risk of it occurring,not that it had occured. That's very far from saying they committed genocide which is what the Hamas supporters here have claimed.

    Ive never seen an army want to commit genocide who warn the people they're coming and told them to move



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Ah the genocide experts are back and dodging questions about Bibis arrest warrant for war crimes. A two for one.

    Hopefully bibi and hamas are gone soon, and the two Israeli goons eventually end up in the Hague.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭dePeatrick


    Gaza Media Office says Israel violated ceasefire dozens of times

    A statement on Telegram says the Israeli army has committed 47 violations after the truce deal entered into force in early October, killing 38 people and wounding another 143.
    The office called the actions "flagrant and clear violations of the ceasefire decision and the rules of international humanitarian law".
    According to the statement, the Israeli forces directly fired at and bombed civilians, and carried out arrests.
    It said that these practices reflect Israel's "continued aggressive approach despite the declaration of a ceasefire".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,025 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Oh well if hamas said it on telegram it must be true



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Has there ever been such an odious nation of belligerents?


    IDF soldiers threw tear gas grenades at Palestinians trying to tend olive groves in the West Bank village of Kobar, near Ramallah. Palestinian journalists at the scene were also targeted with the grenades.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    some more background on the US reaction to Israel bombing Qatar and trying to kill Hamas leaders:

    • Witkoff and Trump adviser Jared Kushner felt "a little bit betrayed" by Israel's September airstrikes targeting Hamas leaders in Qatar, Witkoff told the "60 Minutes" TV program.Witkoff said the strikes "had a metastasizing effect" and made Hamas go "underground," making it "very, very difficult to get to them."
    • Kushner told "60 Minutes" he thought Trump had "felt like the Israelis were getting a little bit out of control in what they were doing, and it was time to be very strong and stop them from doing things that he felt were not in their long-term interests."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    This is for you @sheepysheep


    "All signs suggest that Israel will continue to block Palestinian freedom of movement between the West Bank, Israel, and Gaza, and to restrict the entry of Palestinians from abroad as well as international activists into the Strip. 

    As a result, those who most need to hear it will not be able to know what Gaza's residents really think about armed resistance. 

    In other words, how many of them actually despise Hamas" 

    Amira Hass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,115 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Forced movement of people has been part of many genocides. Have you ever read about the Holocaust or the Armenian genocide?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Seems Israel cares as much about the Israeli survivors as Gazans:

    • The Knesset committee tasked with assisting Nova festival massacre survivors has been dormant for over three months, after chairman Yitzhak Pindrus of United Torah Judaism quit when his party left the coalition. No replacement was appointed, halting the committee's work.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Israel just can't stop killing… and the restriction on aid getting in means some of the 170k injured will die.

    • Six Palestinians were killed and 21 were wounded in the past 48 hours, the Hamas-run Health Ministry said on Saturday. According to the ministry, since the cease-fire began on Sunday, 27 Palestinians have been killed, and the total death toll since the war began has surpassed 68,000.
    • A Gaza City medic told Al Jazeera that 170,000 wounded Palestinians in Gaza City cannot be treated because of a shortage of surgical tools.


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