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Firebird Popular 90 - Thermostat doesn't seem to be working

  • 13-10-2025 03:40PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭


    Ok so a few months ago I had to rewire the boiler due to RCD tripping when the heating was turned on, turned out to be the wiring from the boiler house back to the house/ fuse board.

    The electrician laid near wiring down the side of the garage across the footpath to the boiler house however in doing so the thermostat mounted on the living room wall is redundant. There is another thermostat located on the Firebird Popular boiler itself however I don't think it is working because when I adjust between 60c and 90c I don't hear any audible click and the boiler is running constantly so for the moment I can't control the boiler only through the time switch

    IF it is faulty is it easy to replace as in could I do it myself or do I need a plumber or electrician?

    Any suggestions as to how else I could monitor and control the boiler ?

    thanks very much



«13

Comments

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    The trouble with wiring any safety device it the possibility of getting it wrong and bypassing it.

    It's strange that the high limit stat (its a double stat) part isn't tripping even if the boiler control stat has failed. All of your rads must be scalding hot to touch if the boiler stat isnt working?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Cuttlefish


    Yes they are getting very hot if left on for a certain amount of time so I am using the APT time switch to turn on/ off

    As I mentioned in all my years in the house I have only ever used the thermostat in the living room to set temp and even turn off the heating (if you know what i mean) so never had to use or bother about the thermostat located on the boiler itself.

    The screenshot below is the type of thermostat sitting on top of the boiler.

    When you say "tripping" could you elaborate on that? The heating, if left on, will run continuously and the radiators scalding hot as you mentioned - surely there is nothing controlling the heat output at the moment, correct?

    Screenshot 2025-10-13 at 16.40.19.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭John.G


    I have practically the same (20 year old) Boiler jetted to 20.5kW output but the boiler stat (thermostat) is set around the middle which gives a flow temperature of ~ 70C, yours,at its lowest setting, is probably set to ~ 40C but I'm amazed that the boiler isn't continuously cycling on/off, especially at that very low setting as the rads will only emit a fairly low percentage of the boiler output which fires flat out or not at all (cycles on/off), if the boiler (control) stat has failed then the hi limit stat which is set at ~ 110C should trip and lock out the burner whic must then be reset by removing a plastic cap on the boiler stat and pressing the reset button in, you can see it clearly above, underneath "Firebird", you would soon know if the boiler is running continuously (would require both stats failure, or a cockup made with the wiring) as you would hear it boiling/bubbling like a kettle.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    As above. Also check that the stat phials are in the pocket of the boiler and that the thin capillary tubes to them aren't broken or kinked.

    You might be better getting your service person out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Cuttlefish




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Cuttlefish


    Hasn't tripped yet, the 110c is preset by Firebird would I be right in saying ?

    I removed the plastic cap and pressed the reset button yesterday in the hope it might indicate something, I set and left the setting on the dial to the lowest value, 60c, to see if it would cut out earlier but unfortunately it didn't.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Yes, if not stuck, in which case its easy to cause damage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭John.G


    Yes, its preset to operate, I think, at between 110C/113C, Have you got a open vented system with a feed & expansion cistern (small "tank") in the attic or a pressurized system with a expansion vessel, if open vented then very hot water might start circulating around the cistern and if plastic, it might rupture with dire consequences, my advice is to shut down the boiler and get a competent person to inspect/fix it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Cuttlefish


    Yes I have an expansion "small" tank in the attic, no hot water circulating into it, yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭John.G


    Just to be clear, is the burner firing continuously without cut out??

    How many rads have you got, double/single??

    Edit: I see you are "controlling" it with a timer, very dangerous because if the circ pump stops (and it might fail at these very high temperatures) then you will immediately start generating steam at the rate of ~ 32kgs/hr.

    Post edited by John.G on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Cuttlefish


    radiators there are …

    9 radiators - 8 are double



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Cuttlefish


    Yes it is firing continuously forgot to add



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭John.G


    See Edit in post no11 and shut it down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭jimf


    can you post a pic of the stat as some old stats didnt have a high limit back up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Cuttlefish




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Cuttlefish


    Been looking online and came across this…

    Could this be a replacement ?

    Screenshot 2025-10-13 at 22.54.03.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Cuttlefish


    Looking further still I think this is more in line with what is currently in place….

    The specs on this state it has a safety cut off at a predetermined temperature and so am guessing the original one has the same?

    Screenshot 2025-10-13 at 23.00.30.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭John.G


    Its more than likely thats the one you have because the single stat doesn't have a reset button?.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭jimf


    from your description of issue it does sound exactly how a faulty stat would act up

    maybe hl stat has failed years ago and is only now coming to light

    either way dont run boiler until sorted properly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭smuggler.ie


    combine this with :
    " As I mentioned in all my years in the house I have only ever used the thermostat in the living room to set temp and even turn off the heating (if you know what i mean) so never had to use or bother about the thermostat located on the boiler itself."

    " The electrician laid near wiring down the side of the garage across the footpath to the boiler house however in doing so the thermostat mounted on the living room wall is redundant. "

    Why/how roomstat was made redundant ? was boilerstat made redundant same time?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭John.G


    Not to be recommended as a control method but its probably that the rads are emitting > 20kw or so when the flowtemperature goes up to near 100C, if the existing "50 Deg"rads have a design output of say 13kW then they become "75 Deg" rads at 100C flow temp and will emitt 70% more so ~ 22kW.

    Isn't it also a bit surprising that you can even buy a Firebird Single Control Stat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Cuttlefish


    Morning,

    As I mentioned the RCD started tripping when the heating was turned on, randomly at times, we eliminated the boiler/ pump being the issue during investigations by running an extension lead out to the boiler and by-passing the sockets in the boiler house. We also checked for any other devices that might be on the line. So the electrician tried various fixes, checking for loose earth wirings etc even replacing the old socket in the boiler house eventually it was decided to run new wiring to the boiler house, new double socket etc and this means that the wiring to the room thermostat is also redundant.

    My understanding of my original set up would be that there were two thermostats in the circuit - room thermostat and the one on the boiler. We only ever controlled the temperature with the room thermostat.

    The boiler thermostat is kind of stand alone - It is wired to mains and then this is fed to the Rielo burner, right?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    The boiler stat should never be used in the same way as a room stat. It's mostly set at installation time and not adjusted after that.

    I'm wondering why replacement of the wire made the room stat redundant?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭blackbox


    It sounds like your "electrician" who bypassed your room stat hadn't a clue what he was doing.

    God knows what else he bodged. Find someone competent to review the whole system. It's really not that complicated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Cuttlefish


    The fault lied in the wiring coming under the footpath into the house, access to wiring of the thermostat difficult



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    There's always wireless stats.

    Did it work OK after the new wire was installed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Cuttlefish


    Yes I was thinking of a wireless one but not sure how it would work.

    Firstly I need to address the issue on the "faulty" thermostat on the boiler itself, get that sorted and go from there!

    Has anyone used a wireless thermostat? if so any tips/ advice



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    There's lots out there. Hive is the one I'm most used to. There are other quality ones also.

    As you said Boiler stat first.

    You didn't answer my last question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭John.G


    In all fairness, don't think the electrician touched the stat(s) wiring, see screenshot from post~16, second below, wiring looks original.

    First screenshot shows the stats just removed from a > 35year old Firebird he has just replaced, if you just pull up your stat box, see if the thin capillary tubing is attached to both phials like in the photo.

    image.png

    image.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭smuggler.ie


    "The boiler thermostat is kind of stand alone - It is wired to mains and then this is fed to the Rielo burner, right?"
    No, it has to operate in conjunction to your heating control system. Same apply to your roomstat and Hwaterstat(if present), circulating pump(s)

    What heating system controls you have? How do you turn your heating/Hwater ON?
    Burner have to be wired into that system to start on heat demand and turn off when no longer needed.

    I have sunvic controller and motor valves(rads/Hwater) that start boiler once activated(preset timer or on demand).
    Boilerstat , from images, looks untouched wires .
    If roomstat no longer operational, might be some wiring changes were done at controller side or junction box . Live vs switched live, etc
    Where does boiler stat connect to? 3pin plug socket or junction box, because, i assume, wiring replaced from there to the house(controller/junction), right?

    Another thing to check - temp knob on boiler stat might be damaged/disintegrated and no longer turn actuator - lift it, observe internal mounting latch. you should be able to adjust setting with pliers if knob is broken

    Post edited by smuggler.ie on


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