Israel/Palestine Thread

What exactly are these assertions you refer to.

I need specifics so I can answer your post.

Ill take that as a flimsy attempt to weasel out of your false attempts to discredit me.

The post is still valid.

Huge shift away from Israel in the US with voters switching views on the conflict. Quite surprised at the size of the turnaround driven mainly by younger people.

If he'd negotiated a long term ceasefire, along with a roadmap for a two state solution, and we'd seen some movement on it, then I'd actually say he deserves it.

Your own fault for tapping into his river

We know that not all Gazans are Hamas supporters, if only because every time there's a ceasefire, Hamas starts killing Gazans who have expressed any sort of dissent at all.

OTOH not all Germans were Nazi sympathisers, but you don't see that used as a reason to say the Allies committed genocide when they bombed Hamburg or Dresden. Or even when they dropped two nuclear bombs on Japanese civilians, killing more in a single day in Hiroshima than Israel has killed in two years in Gaza. Plus another 40,000 in Nagasaki, plus all those who died subsequently from injuries and radiation sickness.

It's a war that Hamas started by crossing the border into Israel, killing, raping and kidnapping Israeli citizens. That's an act of war, and Israel are entitled to respond to it by attacking the country that was responsible. Especially when they swore to do it again and again.

I mean, even if Hamas hadn't been the actual government of Gaza, it would be like Bin Laden and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan - again, not genocide apparently, even though Afghans had never ever voted for Al Qaeda to run their country. And Hamas were the government that turned Gaza into a massive military camp.

But only Israel isn't allowed to defend its own citizens against outside attacks.

Some are. Lots aren't though. Because the ceasefire is the only way to get an investigation into war crimes: that will never happen while the war is ongoing. So why are so many of the "Ceasefire Now!" people all suddenly so unsure about this ceasefire?

It looks like a lot of them didn't want "a ceasefire" so much as they actually wanted an Israeli ceasefire, IOW for Israel to stop fighting back.

Just wondering, which border from what country did the terrorists cross?

Its very generous to call Israel pounding civilians day in, day out as fighting back. I think everyone is unsure about this ceasefire as both Hamas and Bibi are not trustworthy.

Israel is allowed to defend its own citizens.

You say killing civilians is an act of war. Israel had killed over 200 Palestinian civilians in 2023, before October 7th. Was this an act of war?
Israel is allowed to retaliate for the killing of its civilians but the Palestinians should just accept the killing of their civilians? Why?

In claiming to defend its own citizens it is not allowed to commit ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Also saying that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict started on October 7th is as accurate as saying the Irish/British conflict started with the Canary Wharf bombing.

Of course Israel is entitled to respond

And what exactly would have been a reasonable, but effective, response on Oct 8th, in your opinion?

Not what they shouldn't have done, but what they should have done.

I've never yet seen a genuine attempt at an answer to that. Anywhere.

Unfortunately, they quickly began to veer away from international law and the law of war and it became clear early on that their actions were way beyond self-defence.

You realise that self defence also includes military actions to ensure that such attacks can't happen again? That's not how international law works.

Proportionate doesn't mean just some sort of "eye for an eye, you killed 1200 so we can do the same" - it means "is the military response necessary to the legitimate aims?" And just like thousands of Afghan civilians were killed by US and allied troops in their war against Al Qaeda - including many weddings - was not judged inappropriate, more an unfortunate consequence of war, the deaths in Gaza are the direct result of Hamas' invasion of Israel.

And then there's this:

FOA has shown that while the massacre in Israel was still happening, western idiots were planning on marching against Israel. Because they are pro Hamas.

So, Israel is now before the ICJ on a charge of Genocide and two of its leaders currently at large from the ICC to answer the charges of War Crimes and Crimes against humanity.

Well we'll see. But there's never been a war without war crimes, so that's hardly surprising, especially given the level of lies being told about Israel. As the link above shows.

And once again, in case you weren't aware, alleged War Criminal #1 allowed Hamas to be fully financed and resourced for his own political aims.

The funny (but not amusing) thing about this is that this actually proves those who refuse to negotiate with Hamas to have been correct: Netanyahu wrongly believed that Hamas would settle for being in power in Gaza. But what Hamas really wanted - and still want - is to destroy Israel. At any cost to their own citizens. That's why it's so risky negotiating with a death cult.

That's because you're only seeing what you want to see.

Being less than optimistic about Israel's bone fides with regards to a ceasefire, never mind an actual lasting peace, doesn't mean that a person isn't "celebrating" the "cessation of a genocide". It simply means that the time to get the bunting out hasn't arrived and there's a long, long, road to travel yet, and given Israel's previous form with breaking agreements and ceasefires there's no real reason for any belief that this one will be any different.

Into the bargain, the Palestinians still face an uncertain future and their existence is still bound by the Israeli yoke, even if they aren't being slaughtered en mass as they have been over the last two years.