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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,178 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Absolutely this.

    Strategy fail yet again.

    Pearse knew what he was talking about maybe?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    fionn i recognise your challenge to francie’s nonsense around banning unionist cultural events, but I do think you are sinking almost to the same levels of ridiculousness now with your claim that if the UUP agree with the TUV, they are aligning with them.  

    So I think what you’re saying is that the UUP cannot articulate their anger at a city Council position, if the TUV are also angry about it. Puzzling.
    that means everyone attending Palestine parades are aligning with Hamas ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    You'd have a fair point if I was talking about this as a single thing in isolation, or if my point was entirely about the UUP rather than broader Unionism. That being said, if we want to be UUP specific, I've been clear previously that I personally quite like Doug Beattie, but the last few years he seems to be chasing that side of the vote more and more often and I don't think he'll ever make substantial inroads there.

    I'll make my point a bit more blunt and hyperbolic if it helps.....would you think a dual language sign that said, 'Caisleán Uidhilín' near your house was a price worth paying for a prosperous Northern Ireland in which the now larger minority felt welcomed or would you prefer to draw a line in the sand and alienate a huge swathe of the middle ground and push them towards voting for Unification?

    The vote would certainly go your way tomorrow, but without a degree of magnanimity, you'll eventually lose the actual moderates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I don’t think that’s a reasonable or logical question.  We could roll that question to so many things.  E.g. do you think a union flag flying on the top of City Hall would be a price worth paying for peace? Etc etc.  

    unfortunately, the two minorities in Belfast will fight this one out in the courts.  

    I don’t have the exact figures here now, but a recent consultation by the Alliance minister discovered, to her annoyance, that approximately 70% of people believe flags flown from street furniture is positive. .  Yesterday Media is quoting a consultation that found a 12% of people in Belfast want Irish signage.   So maybe the council should be putting up the flags for the 12th - I guess nobody would have a problem with Irish signage if the two were treated the same.  



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    you guys still need to convince Catholics like Rory that he is not ‘Northern Irish’, he is not supposed to affiliate with that flag, and he needs to wise up and support OWC being airbrushed out of the British archipelago.
    the guy loves OWC, and living in the US appears to not be shifting that.

    IMG_0991.jpeg

    on every occasion someone has tried to push a Eire flag into his hands, he has instantly discarded it as if it has dog **** on it.
    🎶 …Rory McIlroy, he’s one of our own….. 🎶



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,178 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    He discarded that one for the Europe flag within 5 minutes - I watched it live.

    image.png


    We know he can't go near the Irish tricolour because of the ultra sensitive folk recently seriously traumatised by seeing a cúpla focail on a sign.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,178 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    43 - 17 was the council vote in favour.
    That's a pretty large majority by any reckoning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    It is an entirely reasonable and logical question if we're coming at it from the position of, 'what would broaden the future demographics likely to vote to remain part of the United Kingdom'.

    I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't object to an Irish language sign in Castlewellan, I'm asking if you think it is a strategically sound long term approach to convincing people to remain part of the United Kingdom. I'm suggesting that perhaps over time as views like ours shaped by conflict die off, opinions on the constitutional question aren't likely to be helped by taking positions that make half of society feel unwelcome. If you really want it to be, 'Our' wee country, it has to include, 'themmuns'.

    I would ask the same question of folk like Francie with suggestions on a ban on all Orange marching post-Unification.

    The City Hall flag question is a bit more complicated; 'for peace' sounds very commendable, but bowing to threats of violence is a risky path to go down as we both know from experience. I'd see a pretty distinct difference between that and offering an olive branch even though you don't have to in the hope it would make people feel more welcome and at home and encourage them over to my way of thinking.

    I'd be very curious to see the polling that shows 70% in favour of flags being hung on lampposts, I'd suspect either a very limited sampling (I'd be less shocked to find out that it was, '70% of those asked on Sandy Row' than a broad spectrum of NI society) or a very specific question that isn't necessarily reflective of the way flags are flown.

    I'm sure I could contrive a polling question to show a supermajority opposed to how flags are currently flown in NI. How would you answer the following question yourself?

    Do you believe Union Flags should be allowed to run to rags hanging on lampposts alongside UVF flags?

    Obviously that's ridiculously contrived and if I pointed to a percentage answering that question in the negative, you'd rightly argue that it was a leading question of pretty limited value. Quoting a percentage with no further information is about as much use as a chocolate teapot for anything other than petty point scoring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,178 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    All Ben Lowry can do in objection to this is to demean the language and those who want to see their culture represented. He's on Nolan now.

    Honestly, I feel nothing but sorry for Unionists like him.

    When you are used to supremacy, equality feels like oppression.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    this is the type of equality Gerry Adams promised. He said the Trojan horse of equality. It’s rare for help to be so honest except he didn’t know he was being recorded



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,178 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Bi-lingual signage is the very essence of 'equality'.

    That Unionism will shoot themselves in the foot and show for all to see they will not allow equality will usher in a UI is not hard to see for anyone much less Gerry Adams.

    See the writing on the wall @downcow

    Unionism is in decline, try figuring out the reason, it's staring you in the face tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Here you go - and note this is Alliance Party’s spin on the figures. They initiated the consultation to try and get support for a flags commission. It seriously backfired, and they have not released the raw data - we know why

    Full report here

    IMG_0995.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,708 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Wiorking class Protestants would like equality now all right. Decades ago they were shot at and murdered by supremacist republicans if they dared, or ever wore, the uniform of the state. Nowadays they want access to a major state employer at a jobs fair in Derry but were denied that by republicans. A report earlier said a consultation found only 12% of people in Belfast want Irish signage, but the Irish lanuage supremacists want it. So you are right with the phrase "When you are used to supremacy, equality feels like oppression". After all, republicans know all about oppression. They figure they are MOPEs. ( Most Oppressed People Ever ). No wonder Gerry Fitt the SDLP leader and MP was labelled a Brit by extremist Republicans in the 1980s just because he thought people were treated equally and there was no excuse for the armed struggle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,178 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The scatter gun is out again.

    The discussion is about the here and now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,708 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    In other news today, I see in the Journal the headline that Gardaí stopped Catherine Connolly from hiring a woman convicted of gun crime.

    I thought the only politicians and their employees with a whiff of gunpowder around were some historically to have been found in SF?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,708 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    That day he also used the phrase "break these bastards" in reference to the people he wanted to break.

    He also said he partly regretted using a "Trojan horse" analogy when referring to Sinn Féin's equality strategy.

    He said this in Co. Fermanagh. I wonder did he also "Partly regret" the Enniskillen bombing, or the Tullyhommon bomb that day in Co. Fermanagh which was designed to kill large numbers of innocent Protestant children who were due to gather there. It was larger than Enniskillen and had the capacity to inflict more casualties than those at Enniskillen, but luckily was accidentally discovered by some farmer in time and did not explode.

    He probably only "party regreted" using the phrase because he did not know he was being recorded.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,178 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If this is what Unionism wants representing them, then they have not learned a single lesson about how to stop the decline in Unionism or how to pick the right strategy.

    Do you genuinely think this is the way forward @downcow ?
    If so, can you tell what the endgame might be?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,708 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Interesting to see someone standing up for unionism, I think they have been let down by other leaders in the past few decades. The difficulty with unionists is they have no propaganda wing. SF has. And much more money to spend on elections etc. It is the richest party by far in Ireland, despite have working class supporters. Some might say it is more noticeable since the era of the Northern bank episode.

    And as you know yourself FrancieBrady only too well, SF has an army on social media too.

    I often wonder what would have happened politics in N.I. if the pIRA had not killed that brilliant young unionist Edgar Graham in Queens university, simply because they knew he was brilliant and destined to probably be a future leader of unionism.

    When (republican) staff and students cheered on campus when they saw a young innocent democratic unionist killed that day, it was a new low for that place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,178 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The motion was voted for by Alliance, PBP, SF, SDLP and Inds 43 - 17.

    Rattle the brush under the bed there and get the shinners out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,492 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Unionism has done everything it can do to make itself a pariah. Where it stands now is a direct result of the actions of its elected leaders. It's very simple.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,708 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Yes, as I said, unionists have been let down by most of their leaders in the past few decades. Too many good people were killed like Edgar Graham, or intimidated out of politics, and they ended up with the leaders they got. Bryson is not the only one who thinks "Unionism for 25 years has been passive victims in a cultural war."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,178 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Unionism, the biggest user of the Petition of Concern, Unionism that has blocked and stymied every bit of equality legislation, Unionism that still tries to deny rights to same sex and LGBTQ people, Unionism that has stood on it's head to block Irish Language rights….that 'passive' Unionism?😁😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,708 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Block Irish language rights? Everyone has the right to learn and speak Irish if they want to. Off you go and write and Irish on some Irish language website if that is what you want to do. Or set up your own Irish language website and see how many are interested. Nothing stopping you. But when hospitals and schools and homeless need money, do not expect me to give you money to learn Irish. Or Latin. Or whatever you want to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,178 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Block Irish language rights?

    Yes…to this very day they are still trying and failing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,708 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Who is failing: people like you trying to get 50% Irish on boards.ie, or people like you trying to get 50% Irish on signs in N.I. at cost to the taxpayer there, and against the wishes of most residents?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,178 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Unionist language bigots are 'failing'. Bi-Lingual signs are going up all over NI as agreed and voted for by democratic majorities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,708 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Decocratic majorities…more like SF supported by others who were "got at" / intimidated.

    Just one in eight Irish street signs approved in Belfast since a controversial council policy came into force were supported by 50% or more of residents of the street.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,178 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    He represent Ireland at Olympics. He clearly correctly (unlike you) thinks that irish and northern irish are not mutually exclusive. If someone said i am eastern irish i wouldn't have a problem either. He has an irish first and second name and yes he is one of our own. Why do you to sectarian Rory ?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    He represent Ireland at Olympics. He clearly correctly (unlike you) thinks that irish and northern irish are not mutually exclusive. If someone said i am eastern irish i wouldn't have a problem either. He has an irish first and second name and yes he is one of our own. Why do you need to sectarian Rory ?



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