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US/EU trade talks go down to the wire

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,641 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,037 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Now we get to see how iron clad the EU's deal was. 15% cap was part of that deal. I don't know what is happening regarding the EU here but obviously Ireland is the most exposed. Serious concerns in govt buildings I can well imagine. If imposed on the EU the deal is broken.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/us/2025/0926/1535412-trump-tariff-pharmaceutical/



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 11,149 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    The only one think it was an iron clad deal is YOU. The fact you don't under stand that an actual deal would need the ratification of congress and the 38 regional and national parliments (yes, 38 not 27) of the EU says it all.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Nothing is iron clad when you are dealing with a megalomaniacal wannabe dictator. Debasing yourself to toady to them is most assuredly not a more successful strategy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,037 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    If Trump imposes 100% tariffs on European pharma then the framework trade deal with the EU is broken. Simple as that.

    We don't know the details here yet. Maybe the 15% applies.

    If the 15% cap doesn't apply obviously the reckless budget the govt was going to bring forward next month is being rewritten as we type.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,000 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    If Trump imposes 100% tariffs on European pharma then the framework trade deal with the EU is broken. Simple as that.

    And what? Assuming it happens, it would just prove that the current US administration cannot be trusted in terms of trade negotiations?
    And how would you resolve that (rather than just trying to point out negatives)?

    We don't know the details here yet. Maybe the 15% applies.

    Ah ok so, it is almost like you were fearmongering?

    If the 15% cap doesn't apply obviously the reckless budget the govt was going to bring forward next month is being rewritten as we type.

    "reckless budget"???
    Also, you don't know what is happening in terms of tariffs but you know that the budget is being rewritten?

    Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/ .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,037 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    There would have to be a reality check with the budget because the arse is going to fall out of our corporation tax receipts at some point and then we are going to be in a very bad situation. This move by Trump would bring that closer.

    Part of the reason we are so exposed here is that the government has increased current spending on the back of windfall corporate reciepts. If you exclude those reciepts the country would have a €12bn deficit next year according to the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council who are blue in the face warning the government about dangerous spending increases.

    So Trump's tariff policies matter more to us than any other country in Europe.

    The EU trumpeted it's deal with Trump. Let's see if it's going to be upheld.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


     This move by Trump would bring that closer.

    No it wouldn't. Would you care to explain why you think it would?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,037 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    No I will not waste my time explaining anything to you. If you need it explained you can sign up for some rudimentary economics course somewhere or just read the latest ESRI report from last week or any of the IFAC releases in the last 12 months.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 40,777 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    "if we exclude those receipts" Saying multinational corporation tax is or could go to zero is simply not in any way credible

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,037 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The windfall taxes can and will go to zero at some point. The core reciepts should remain. It's the windfall element that is really concerning because of the government's spending increases. That will put the state in to a very large deficit as things stand. The government has been getting a barrage of warnings including from the Central Bank that the scale of it's spending increases puts the state at risk.

    It's kind of a separate issue but it is still intricately connected with Trump's tariff policies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,641 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Back to your doom predicting, I see.

    The EU never trumpeted it's deal, because there never was a deal, there was a framework. A framework is not a deal, and with Trump, it is exactly why the EU only went with a framework, just in the likelihood of him changing his mind like he always does.

    You are painting a picture that just doesn't exist, again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,624 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Ah lookit, it wouldn't be Kermit if he wasn't on some thread or other talking absolute nonsense. Same old for the last 10 years

    Some of his Brexit commentary is worth looking back at, its hilarious. And embarrassing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,419 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    The EU stated this morning their trade deal exempted them from this new tarrif, so they certainly believe theres a deal.

    Apparently Trumps team have just confirmed that it does not apply to countries with deals done.

    So looks like the EU were right in their statement this morning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,624 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Indeed they have confirmed it.

    All the gleeful Irish people who hate Ireland and our EU membership, will have to find another hobby horse for the weekend. 🤡

    1000042660.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Not all of Trump's trade deals are tariff-inclusive, like the EU deal, setting a ceiling of 15%. In particular the UK/US deal is not tariff inclusive; it sets a baseline tariff of 10%, but sectoral tariffs can be charged on top of that. It remains to be seen whether the 100% pharma tariff will be applied to pharma products imported from the UK.

    I well remember Kermit telling us at the time that "the UK used its trade independence to move fast" in securing a favourable deal from Trump and that Ireland would be in terrible trouble if we failed to get the same tariff terms as the UK. It seems now that the complete opposite may the case and, if so, I look forward to a prompt and frank admission of error of the kind for which Kermit is so justly celebrated when his regular criticisms of the EU prove to be incorrect, and his prognostications of consequent doom fail to materialise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,037 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The US and Britain have agreed a zero tariff pharmaceutical deal. Britain becomes the only country in the world with zero tariffs on pharma with the US.

    The UK will pay an extra 25% on US medicines by 2035 in return.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/landmark-uk-us-pharmaceuticals-deal-to-safeguard-medicines-access-and-drive-vital-investmentfor-uk-patients-and-businesses

    Obviously this puts Ireland and other EU countries like the Netherlands at a competitive disadvantage for investment. The extent of the issues this will cause for the industry here remains to be seen. It's not easy to move those operations and it takes a long time. It could certainly lead to new investments going to Britain instead which would be visible much quicker.

    The Irish government needs to consider it's own incentives to counter these hits to competitiveness whether that's tax exemptions, R&D support or the rate of corporation tax among other things.

    I don't know if the EU itself is trying to be more ambitious than the 15% tariff cap or not but I don't think the government can afford to wait this out for a protracted period of time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    How poor a negotiating position must be in that it's agreed to balloon the NHS spend even more with a 25% rise in medicines from the US.

    Shares in UK-based drugmakers GSK and AstraZeneca were broadly unchanged on the agreement. The UK is a very small market for the pharmaceutical industry, making up just 2% of AstraZeneca's total revenue for instance.

    Ah, right.

    US and UK agree zero tariffs deal on pharmaceuticals

    A week before GSK's US investment announcement, US pharmaceutical company Merck - which is called MSD in Europe – revealed it was scrapping its planned £1bn expansion of its UK operations.

    Shortly after, AstraZeneca also announced it was pausing a planned £200m investment in a Cambridge research facility. In July, AstraZeneca said it would invest $50bn on medicine manufacturing and research and development in the US.

    Oh, ****, well, hands up who thought this was a good deal for the UK when they saw the thread resurrected.

    I don't know if the EU itself is trying to be more ambitious than the 15% tariff cap or not but I don't think the government can afford to wait this out for a protracted period of time.

    And they will wait it out till crazy tariff idiot is no longer being crazy and idiotic with tariffs and a more sane US will be kissing Ursula's ring as the EU looks to China instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,037 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    A complete misread.

    It has nothing to do with what the NHS will pay. That is a total irrelevance to us. What is super relevant to us is investment and the money the government makes from pharma companies shipping product back to the United States.

    The hit to Ireland is in the very first line of your link.

    The UK and the US have agreed a deal to keep tariffs on UK pharmaceutical shipments into America at zero.

    The pharma industry is enormously important to the Irish economy and the exchequer. Having a country of 66 million people next to you that can import in to your biggest market with a zero tariff is not a comfortable position for a small country to be in for an industry you rely on for high quality jobs and income.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,641 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Still doom preaching, and still nothing you have predicted has come true at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Yet all the UK investment has been drying up, at least do a bit of research beyond the government announcement next time, in an effort to be fast, you've been sloppy in your reading and drawn the same flawed and wrong conclusions you have made previously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,037 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    It won't be drying up now and, as things stand, at our expense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    But pharma currently dosen't have tariffs now same as chips, as it is part of sectoral 232 tariffs which were exempt from the 15% reciprocal tariffs. So ireland still basically has lowest rate.

    The whole tariff implementation has been too overly complex and a mess. If anything Trump seems to love cosying up to the winners in this corporate world which are big tech/pharma which is a win for Ireland. The real irony of all of this from an Irish point of view is that it will be the Democrats who will burst our bubble. Only for Sinema in 2022, who refused to support the Democrats on taxing big MNCs we would have been screwed. They will do the same when they get power again but won't have the objectors like last time as big pharma paying them off won't work. Trump dosen't appear to want to do anything to damage these big companies and clearly has been bought out like the rest of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Obviously this puts Ireland and other EU countries like the Netherlands at a competitive disadvantage for investment.

    Not at all. Did you not read the article? The UK/US zero tariff deal only runs for three years. The nature and scale of pharma investment means that decisions are made on the basis of much longer timeframes that that. This will be marginal to pharma investment decisions.

    What it might do is affect disinvestment decisions. A phama multinational considering switching production out of the UK to another location might now defer that decision for at least three years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I wonder will we see the UK come back to the table on SAFE as well or leave themselves tied to US whims due to their weak negotiating position.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/canada-clinches-deal-to-join-europes-e150b-defense-scheme/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,641 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    at our expense.

    More nonsense. How is it at anyones expense? Explain it, don't just claim it to be true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 40,777 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Don't hold your breath.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,641 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    The EU will throw Ireland under the bus…any day now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,170 ✭✭✭eire4


    Cracked me up with that reply. How many times did he say just that. It truly is a very telling tale of how far for all our faults that Ireland has come since independence that a century odd later we were the ones holding the cards and having the final yes or no over London thanks to the steadfast support from the EU.



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