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Israel/Palestine Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    That's being hyperbolic. They're no where near Nazi levels of genocide. Up there with the Serbs and Turks but a long way to go to reach Nazi levels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,096 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Hospitals, medical centres, and healthcare workers enjoy special protection but Israel have targeted them all from Day 2. There is only one hospital left in any operational sense.

    Article 18 of Geneva Convention IV and Articles 12 and 19 of Additional Protocol I make it explicit: medical units “shall not be attacked under any circumstances.”

    However, this protection is not absolute. If a hospital is being used for acts harmful to the enemy (e.g. storing weapons, sheltering healthy combatants, or serving as a military command post), it may lose its protection. But the threshold is high - treating wounded combatants or having armed soldiers does not count as "acts harmful". Even if protection is lost, the principle of proportionality applies (Additional Protocol I, Article 51) where any attack must not cause excessive harm to civilians or civilian objects compared to the concrete and direct military advantage gained. Given that Hamas are utterly defeated and haven't fired a bullet in a long long time, Israel's campaign against hospitals and healthcare workers is part of their terror strategy against ordinary civilians. Israel used to use the "command and control centre" line but it's clear that was nonsense. Hamas aren't commanding or controlling anything for a long long time. Israel ransacked all the hospitals last year so they have no excuse to keep bombing them.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    Killing journalists, but Hamas. Killing nuns, but Hamas. Killing children, but Hamas. Killing sheep, but Hamas. You get the pattern these apologists follow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    In absolute terms or absolute cruelty? Cause tbh I'd almost say they've surpassed them in cruelty. The Nazis didn't systematically target children, medics, reporters. Norm has even said that the Nazis at least passed of their atrocities as scientific research, they didn't kill children for sport.

    They're never going to outdo them in terms of absolute numbers cause the numbers aren't there to kill. Anthony Agular (the GHF whistleblower) suggested this morning with the level of destruction and the fact that the "camp" that's been constructed from them down south is only capable of accommodating 1.5/1.6 millions (with no water/food/cooking facilities etc), the overall death toll is most likely going to be in the region of 500k. In relative terms, that doesn't put them far off ze Nazis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,404 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    What Israel is doing is genocide and ethnic cleansing. In the westbank there's also apartheid. But they are not as bad as the nazi's. That's not defending israel. It's absolutely horrific what they're doing. But it's not the same. And trying to say they are actually lessens what they're doing. This idea that they have to be the worst ever undermines the argument that describes what they're doing.

    Don't understate or overstate the horror that's happening there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    I've actually been to the West Bank and the treatment I saw the Palestinians getting was deplorable. No doubt the usual suspects will either accuse me of lying or else defend it as 'perfectly normal, happens everywhere'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    I hadn't thought about this for years but that post just brought it back. The Palestinians I met were so friendly and just normal people, it was the same in Syria and Lebanon. They'd be amused with my limited Arabic but when I told them I was Irish they'd all have nothing but positive things to say between the support we give them and the peacekeepers too. And then you have the fools, many of whom have probably not travelled outside of Ireland very far, posting on this thread and others completely de-humanisng them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭mvt


    Again, posts like this just give supporters of the Israeli government the opportunity to distract from the carnage ongoing in Gaza.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭dePeatrick




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Israel has been conducting ethnic cleansing and its bestial form of brutality for 75 years. Now they are doing it on the peak hour news bulletins in the full glare of the World. The Nazis hid their holocaust away from sight and if they had won WWII much less would have come to light.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,674 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Seems not all has gone to plan according to Haaretz:

    An internal IDF document concluded that the months-long 'Gideon's Chariot' offensive in Gaza has failed to achieve the war's key objectives, Israel's Channel 12 News reported on Sunday. The document reportedly stated that Israel made "every possible mistake" in the Strip by waging a war "contrary to its own doctrine of warfare," while Hamas had "every condition to survive and win."

    The document reportedly asserted that Israel inadvertently provided resources to Hamas, depleted its own forces and lost international support. The document goes on to say that the distribution of humanitarian aid was poorly planned and executed, allowing Hamas to run an international "media campaign" portraying Gaza as facing widespread hunger.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,674 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Opinion piece on Israeli policy of destroying medical facilities. Normally, this would be shocking news. But now, it just states the obvious.

    "Yagil Levy, head of The Open University Institute for the Study of Civil-Military Relations, argues that the strike on Khan Yunis' Nasser Hospital last week reflects broader Israeli policy in Gaza.

    'This attack reflects the accepted policy: systematic damage to medical facilities and medical staff. The use of a simulated threat – in this case, cameras placed on the roof of the hospital – in order to justify a disproportionate attack,' he said. 'After all, the medical infrastructure in Gaza was not destroyed in its own right – there is always a justification in the form of a real or simulated threat, such as the presence of Hamas members in the hospital, in order to harm it. The destruction of infrastructure, including medical infrastructure, is part of a policy to render entire areas uninhabitable and thus force the population to leave'"

    Linda Dayan



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,674 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Existential threat? Hamas still fighting? Hmmm

    The IDF tore down a border fence at the entrance of Kibbutz Nahal Oz on the Gaza border at the request of residents, saying there was no longer a viable threat of shelling from Gaza.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,674 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Latest Haaretz snippets.

    Starvation tactics still in play though it seems some in the IDF are losing control and killing their own (no surpirse seeing as they killed scores on Oct 7th).

    Israel has said nothing about the cease fire that Hama agreed to 2 weeks ago. Its the same cease fire conditions Israel agreed to months ago. If you needed proof that Israel doesn't want to the war to end and doesn't care about the hostages, their silence is deafening.

    Israel being compared to North Korea and Iran - by Israelis.

    France is gearing up for the Two-State Solution confence in 3 weeks.

    Israeli strikes killed 73 Palestinians over the past day, medical sources said. Of those killed, 12 were seeking aid, the Hamas-run Health Ministry said, adding that 13 more deaths from hunger and malnutrition were recorded in the last 24 hours, including three children.

    Soldiers and officers from the Golani Brigade told Haaretz that negligent conduct by their commanders led to troop deaths along the Morag route in southern Gaza, describing the outpost along the route as plagued by "a lack of operational discipline that costs lives." They said that despite repeated warnings, their concerns were ignored, and that the IDF has failed to conduct thorough or credible investigations into the incidents in which soldiers were killed or wounded. The most recent fatal incident in the area occurred on Saturday, when Sgt. First Class (res.) Ariel Lubliner, 34, was traveling in a logistics convoy to the outpost and was shot and killed by one of its guards. The IDF described the case as an "unintentional discharge," but according to information obtained by Haaretz, the soldier at the guard post pointed his weapon at the convoy and, for reasons that remain unclear, released the safety and fired. The soldier was not removed from his position and continues to serve at the outpost.

    Qatar's Foreign Ministry said it has not yet received an Israeli response to the cease-fire proposal Hamas accepted two weeks ago, stressing that "Israel's plan to occupy Gaza endangers everyone, including the hostages."

    "Israel's foreign policy, led by Netanyahu and his trembling shadow, Strategic Affairs Minister Ron Dermer, relies almost entirely on the U.S. Republican Party and Trump, while defying the rest of the world. This is criminally reckless behavior, effectively mirroring countries like North Korea and Iran, which depend on China and Russia. Under this government, Israel is closer than ever to becoming a pariah state with only a single ally that could prove to be a precarious one if things don't go as smoothly as they did in the skies of Iran" – Yossi Verter

    French President Emmanuel Macron said on X that he is working "in close coordination with the King of Jordan in preparation" for the Conference on the Two-State Solution, set to be held in New York on September 22. Macron added that both he and King Abdullah oppose any post-war plan for Gaza that would involve the forced displacement of Palestinians, writing that "such a proposal, contrary to international law, would lead only to a dead end."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,514 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Several Israeli observers have speculated that the country seems to be gradually lurching towards being a militarised right wing dictatorship and former 'democracy' (but with the impetus for this coming from Netanyahu and the nutjobs in his cabinet, not from the IDF).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭Randycove


    the way I see it, is that Netanyahu needs this to keep him out of prison and so he has surrounded himself with right wing nut jobs who wouldn’t otherwise get a cabinet position. The two big things that would normally prevent this is the normal people of Israel who have lost their voice thanks to 7th October (which may have been part of this plot as well) and also the restraining hand of the White House, which is currently occupied by an absolute dick. It’s a perfect storm and at the moment, there is little the rest of the world can do to stop it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭dePeatrick


    I used to think that a lot of Israelis were against this but no longer think so, vast majority are behind the genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I don't know - he seems to be a bit of a right "wingnut" himself, and in his element now (sounding messianic sometimes).

    Perhaps he's just evolving into what he always wished to be in an ideal climate; as you said a very right wing coalition in govt. at home, Israeli society out for vengance after Oct. 7th, Trump in the Whitehouse, and evangelicals, anti muslim racists etc. have probably never been so strong in the Republican party (and therefore currently at the controls of the USA).

    It is like a mushroom fruiting or something.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,869 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Nah, Netanyahu is fueled by revenge for his brother, nothing more. He doesn't care a jot a about the ICJ or the warrant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    The rest of the world could stop it very easily if they stood up to Israel. There is no excuse of powerlessness that the rest of the world can make. For the WWII holocaust, the world could hide behind not knowing what was going on in the concentration camps because of the absence of social media like in today's world.

    Sanctions, bans on all trade, no visas, exclusion from all cultural and sporting activities, exclusion from financial markets, etc. These actions would bring Israel to heel very quickly. If Europe led on them, it would give Europe some modicum of relevance again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭mvt


    Again, all posts like this, as well meaning as they are only end up giving opportunities for supporters of the Israeli government to distract from the ongoing carnage in Gaza.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,674 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Of course he doesn't care that he's an alleged war criminal at large.

    But he will when he's sharing a pot with Duterte and Gallant.

    I hope he rots in The Hague - I'd wager many Israelis do too.

    ICC are looking at other Israelis too so there could be more warrants. Smotrich and Ben-Gvir would be prime targets for prosecution. Though Ben-Gvir is well used to that as a convicted terrorist and racist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,514 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    There are echoes of Trump's US what is happening in Israel. The same observers suggest that Netanyahu and the nutjobs may be aiming to spend another five or ten years in power in Israel and will do whatever they have to do to make it happen, even if it means widespread illegality and criminality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    It is long past the time when all countries need to be open and honest about what Israel has been doing in Palestine for the last 75-80 years. Forget Trump and what America might do, they are no longer a reference point for other countries.

    Let zionist supporters talk in public about their love of the genocide and ethnic cleansing and murder for fun. Humanitarians and lawyers have the evidence to confront them in public.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,986 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    A mod is looking at changing the name of this thread and is looking for suggestions on the below thread.

    Ignore the post quoted, unsure how to just link a thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,151 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,986 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    Probably best to put suggestions into the thread I linked, mod stated they have no interaction on this thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭dePeatrick


    https://novaramedia.com/2025/09/02/italian-dockworkers-threaten-to-shut-down-all-of-europe-if-gaza-aid-flotilla-is-blocked/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,674 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Seems Israel simply cannot help itself and is just a belligerant State:



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,674 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    But Hamas….

    "At least 21,000 children in Gaza have been disabled since the war between Israel and Hamas began on 7 October, 2023, a United Nations committee has said."



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