Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

Sorry but you are framing it.

Considering that Putin's demands are at minimum.

• No NATO
• Massively reduced and defanged Ukrainian army
• No western troops as security guarantee
• Russia gets Veto on security guarantee
• No western weapon deliveries
• Zelensky replaced
• Sanctions dropped
• Territories yet to be conquered simply handed over(Including the massively fortified lines in Donbass)
• No war reparations or stolen children returned
• Essentially : surrender and prepare to be invaded again soon.

When you dig even a little past your shallow reading of 69% of Ukrainians want negotiations. The next logical question to ask is what would Ukrainians be prepared to accept as part of a good faith negotiation.

And thankfully it seems that Ukrainians aren't as weak willed as you and the other Vatniks.

Over 70% of Ukrainians reject Russian peace plan, support for US proposal remains divisive, poll shows

So if you give the Ukrainians a choice of Surrender or Fight. Guess what they choose?

The Ukrainians when polled, given the choice between war and negotiations favour negotiations by a significant margin. Its bizarre to try repackage the Ukrainians rejection of the war option in the poll as secretly really being support for the war.

The Ukrainians are likely far better informed about what negotiations with the Russians will entail than you are. And still 69% of them discounted the support for war to victory, and voiced support for those negotiations. And they will be very tough terms - much worse than what the Russians asked for in 2022, or 2015 or 2014. But the 69% of Ukrainians who support negotiations to end the war will already know that.

Again to give examples of the obvious

"Really shocked at the latest poll, Zelensky has dropped down to 60% favourability. He's not doing well"

"More gains from the Russians, it's a meatgrinder for those poor Ukrainians, why do people keep wanting them to fight to the death like this"

"Why do countries keep shutting down Putin, why do they want to prolong the war, just go to the table instead of all this war lust"

"More losses by Ukraine" x 100

Naturally people support Ukraine, as such we focus on gains/positivity for Ukraine and setbacks for Russia. It comes from a good place.

Someone who supports Putin focuses on the opposite, so they act contrarian about setbacks for Russia, and concern troll gains for Ukraine. Even if they attempt to hide it, or just stay in character to avoid attention from mods, their posts will systematically represent this.

Again most people know this, it's obvious, but just to highlight it again.

They are also opening a manufacturing plant in Ukraine and just announced the world's most advanced explosive powders factory to be built in Bulgaria.

Rheinmetall has now received its first important order from the Ukrainian government for the construction of an ammunition factory in the Ukraine, which was announced in February 2024, and marks the starting point for the realisation of the project. The order for the Duesseldorf-based technology group Rheinmetall covers the complete technical equipment of the factory through to commissioning. This involves a total value ranged in a low three-digit million euro range, which will be booked as incoming order at the start of the third quarter of 2024. It is foreseen to begin in short term and to be completed within a few years.

Some of these things can't be done at the drop of a hat, it takes time to actually manufacture the specialist machinery and tools; they aren't off the shelf items, they are bespoke. I remember this being explained in reference to the slow pace of ammunition production increase in the US where it was said it literally took years to make the production equipment.

So saying X should have been done is easy, but the reality is that 'should' is an impossibility.

Extra question

Why Russian meat using donkeys and scooters in their suicide dashes and not tanks @brickster69 boasting about

Oh that’s right they are vapourware like Armata tanks

Whatever people think about this war from a moralistic point of view, the overall position is pretty clear when you cut through the political theatre and the propaganda pumped out by both sides:

1. The US and the Western politicians are the ones most eager for the war to end. They are the ones pushing for "ceasefires" etc. Political and economic strain is clearly showing in these democracies.

2. Ukraine is willing to cease the fighting, but at the same time they simply cannot agree to current Russian negotiation demands. It's politically impossible for Zelensky to accept (he would seen as be the man who "surrendered Ukraine" to Russia), and may actually put his and his family's lives in danger as there are still elements in Ukrainian society that would prefer to continue to fight and would view him as a traitor.

3. Russia appears to be the least interested in negotiations and the most willing to continue the fight. This suggests that they (Putin?) believe the conflict is going in their favor and can weaken Ukraine further on the battlefield. Another reason that Russia isn't willing to seriously negotiate is that anything less than "victory" also means political (and potentially a physical) suicide for Putin. He threw in his soldiers over the border in 2022, much to the shock of most of upper echelons of Kremlin, so he cannot back down now. I think it's worth noting that before this open war broke out in 2022, Putin was starting to be seen as growing weak and politically vulnerable inside Russia, as he was approaching 70 and without a nominated successor… This war silenced the various powerplays that were happening among the elites.

In short, this war continues until something gives, and we have no idea which side ends up blinking first

With regards to conditions to end the war or at least conditions to be met before a ceasefire is agreed to. Then what about the following Ukr demands for international peace and stability such as :-

(1) that Ru hand over that part of Finland that it still occupies

(2) That it vacates that part of Moldova that it occupies

(3) that it vacates that part of Georgia that it confiscated

(4) that Chechnya be allowed to become an independant state

(5) that Ru hand over five of the Ru republics/oblasts that border Ukr

In summary , is Ukr not as entitled to come up with it’s own list of ‘unachievable ‘ conditions as Putin has done. ?

I don't think either of those actions is against the law, and I'm happy that that's the case.

You're the one who is hoping for prosecutions - under what law?

Inciting genocide.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1973/act/28/enacted/en/print.html

(4) A person charged with an offence of genocide or any attempt, conspiracy or incitement to commit genocide shall be tried by the Central Criminal Court.

Very nice!

Anyway have you ever gotten around to admitting you were astoundingly wrong about the pokrovsk elastic band snapping?

I mean its either that or you're spreading misinformation?

You can't get away with your silly "fog of war" excuse anymore since you've been posting uncofirmed map reports from shady twitter users since then.

So which is it? You're either wrong or a malicious disinformation spreader.

Gwan ahead there.

"How is it possible, if these countries are really so worried about the Orcs storming through Poland you would imagine defence spending and capacity would of been increased massively by now."

Poland are ramping up their army rapidly BECAUSE they are afraid Russia will invade

There are posters only a few weeks ago inciting members to travel to Russia

Where they have no issue erm “encouraging” people to be sent to the front, especially non ethnic White Russians

So we should see rapid advances any day now so by Russia right ?