Northern Ireland 2125?

It always comes back to the Brits made us do it.

Let's say in a UI, the new government in Dublin says, right, we will devolve power to a parliament in NI (downcow's dream) and the Shinners have the majority) and they say, we are only going to give votes to a certain group of people, treat them as 2nd class citizens in employment, education and housing, change the system of voting to ensure we maintain power meanwhile policing them with a sectarian police force.
How long before you blame Dublin for allowing that happen? How long would it take for a violent reaction to occur?

Because @blanch152 that is exactly what happened for 50 yrs after partition.

If downcow was burned out of his home would you tell him turn the other cheek, they'll eventually start being democrats?
More's the point, do you think he'd listen to you?

I think in general the British army and British government done the best they could, as honestly and lawfully as they could

Straight off the bat a stupid and illinformed statement that flies in the face of fact.

, given the situation they were in at the time. Someone needed to keep the 2 sides apart in N.I. In any country in the world, there needs to be a government and a police force, to keep some sort of law and order.

You've been given information already today on how the government sided clearly with one side and used the loyalist terrorists as and when they could. They turned a blind eye to collusion between their armed forces and terrorists.

To state "they were keeping two side apart" is moronic.

As we saw in the 1956-62 border campaign by the IRA, if a terrorist group attacks and kills members of a police force that breaks down community relations and makes the situation worse for everyone.

Or if the police force allow the treatment of one community to be decidedly sectarian and it is also driven by government policy. All of which pre-dated and then contributed to the border campaign and the Troubles as a whole.

To sum it up as simply the IRA being at fault is again the stuff of delusion.

Probably hundreds of thousands served in the security services over many decades : the vast majority acted within the law, despite many being under huge personal strain 24/7 at the time.

That's why the police service and military units had to undergo a number of extreme changes and were found continuously to be demonstrably sectarian…

Of course there were exceptions ( some might call them bad apples), as in the armed forces or police of any government in the world. The majority wanted peace, and the vast majority of the security forces did not want to shoot anyone or plant bombs and destroy property, and the vast majority did not shoot anyone or plant bombs and destroy property.

Ah you've tried this old "a few bad apples" defence of your beloved sectarian forces before but were found wanting when it came to the facts of the matter.

That exact phrase popped up in a review by the MOD GOC of Northern Irelands policing force that, in reference to upcoming trials of officers in upcoming trials for serious sectarian crimes;

"it was no longer good enough to talk in terms of a few bad apples"

A British Army review of the UDR in 1985 noted that;

"The various sectarian crimes committed by UDR soldiers and allegations of harrassment cannot simply be dismissed as the work of a few rotten apples"

I condemn any soldiers who acted unlawfully on Bloody Sunday, and I'm sure other mistakes were probably made.

Just Bloody Sunday though…Other mistakes were 'probably' made.. If you really were serious in your condemnation, a cursory search would have dealt with the "probably" part; but lets face it, you aren't one for facts.

I think my attitude is the same as most people in Ireland during the troubles. Most people I know back then hated the pIRA as well as the loyalist para-militaries. SF only got a per cent or 2 in elections. Do not forget the pIRA killed some of our Gardai and army too, so stop the revisionism.

Revisionism? Who has stated that the IRA did not kill Gardai and/or Irish Army members? Lets see the exact posts or withdraw the stupid remark.

Neither of those reflect your attempts to portray the Troubles as simplistically driven by the PIRA as you continue to attempt to summarise it as. Austin Currie of all people recognised and lived the threat of loyalist terrorism. Your understanding of the conflict is extremely suspect.

It is not an excuse though. That is just your way of batting away looking at what happened properly.

You and the others have, (I assume through lack of knowledge or just stubborn bias or maybe both), fooled yourself that one paramilitary group acted in a vacuum.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Stamping your foot and insisting on a trite soundbite response just underlines all that.

You aren't interested in what happened just a version of it you need to cling to for whatever reason.

I abhor violence and condemn it but I need to understand why it happened.

And how did all the other violent participants do?

Have you any idea how stupid that approach is in a discussion.

‘Lets look at the causes of the conflict’.

’No, the ‘Ra, sin e’

‘We know the ‘Ra were….’

‘NO, the ‘Ra the ‘Ra the ‘Ra the Ra the ‘Ra!

Which has what to do with the conflict?

Even though your analysis is mindnumpingly lacking in complexity the conflict/war was’nt awaiting southern approval. It was happening and it didn’t matter what an electorate said.

I am not looking for validation for the IRA or SF.
All you are doing is avoiding . The internet equivalent of stamping your foot.

So what?

How does that explain what happened an why it happened?

You like somebody on another thread today. Presented with incontrovertible fact after fact kept to the same line.
You are interested in discussion.

Good luck. Not responding to that juvenile footstamping so don’t bother engaging.

Mallon and the SDLP tried to stand in the way of an agreement and they were never forgiven.

Nobody is proposing a ‘shoehorning’, certainly not me.

I have said if you get majority support for your continuation of partition I won’t stand in the way.
Quite how you are going to achieve that we still don’t know.