Northern Ireland 2125?

It won't be until it is platformed politically. The public weren't having a conversation about abortion rights or same sex marriage rights etc until it was politically platformed by the work of activists. That is what is happening now, same process and you can deny until the cows come home if you wish.

As I said, we are a 'change of leader' or the 'make-up of a coalition' away from a Plan being made ready and all the back channel work to begin to put a Border Poll in place. No-way will this be either government making a solo run ideally, unless government in the UK really fractures that is, which isn't impossible either.

…with a few useful allies to help him.

A moderate unionist would also acknowledge the British army's part takeing in murders during the troubles like bloody sunday and the british governments whitewashing of the murders.

You seem to just want to call out paramilitaries and dont except the wrongs of the BA or british government so you cant be considered a moderate either.

Really?

Not even the prolific poster who tries to excuse it by mentioning what happened several days before?

Or goes on about the 1000's who served but never did anything to dilute the part played by the British and their various forces.

😁

It Wasn't just that day tho was it. They were supplying weapons to loyalist paramilitaries through the troubles.

But glad we agree that a moderate unionist would condemn the actions of the British Army and government in the troubles.

But Francis McM doesn't condemn the British Army or government for thier partakings in the troubles so we both agree he cant he cant be described as a moderate.

That summary excuses and minimises a lot of what the security forces were doing and why they were doing it. It also leaves out the successive governments policies that gave rise to the Troubles. It bluntly gives a pass to loyalist militants, security forces and those in power to say they only had to take those measure solely because of the PIRA.; despite the fact the government policies and loyalist militants pre-date the PIRA.

Telling that the PIRA get a mention but you omit the Loyalist terrorist groups that were active long before the PIRA. Like the last time(s) when you simply want to paint it as a very one side, single fault, conflict.

A "moderate nationalist" with a very skewed and questionable thought process when it comes to NI and The Troubles.

Except thats not what I was referring to and you know it.

Your summary of - "It was the PIRA who were to blame and anything that was done was solely due to them", has been trotted out a few times. The summary above makes little of how one side acted yet names the PIRA as the sole bad actors. It's a well worn thought process that's been flushed out a number of times.

I think in general the British army and British government done the best they could, as honestly and lawfully as they could, given the situation they were in at the time. Someone needed to keep the 2 sides apart in N.I. In any country in the world, there needs to be a government and a police force, to keep some sort of law and order. As we saw in the 1956-62 border campaign by the IRA, if a terrorist group attacks and kills members of a police force that breaks down community relations and makes the situation worse for everyone.

Probably hundreds of thousands served in the security services over many decades : the vast majority acted within the law, despite many being under huge personal strain 24/7 at the time.

Of course there were exceptions ( some might call them bad apples), as in the armed forces or police of any government in the world. The majority wanted peace, and the vast majority of the security forces did not want to shoot anyone or plant bombs and destroy property, and the vast majority did not shoot anyone or plant bombs and destroy property.

I condemn any soldiers who acted unlawfully on Bloody Sunday, and I'm sure other mistakes were probably made.

I think my attitude is the same as most people in Ireland during the troubles. Most people I know back then hated the pIRA as well as the loyalist para-militaries. SF only got a per cent or 2 in elections. Do not forget the pIRA killed some of our Gardai and army too, so stop the revisionism.

Strongly disagree with the British gov did the best they could. They allowed an apartheid state develop where gerrymandering and and giving best jobs and housing to one side. Then at the start of the troubles when people demanded equality and protested they murdered them and subsequently whitewashed it. Infact IMO the british gov were the ones most responsible for the troubles. If NI was originally set up like after the GFA the troubles wouldn't have started.

Also through the troubles the British army was supplyingweapons to para-military that were used to kill civilians. So were aiding and abetting alot of under civilian murders.

But a moderate unionist would be just abel to say now i condemn para-militaries and the british army and government during the troubles.