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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭Randycove


    So how do you define native? Is there a time limit in your little version of mein kampf?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I didn't 'let slip' anything.

    I said very clearly, and will say it again, because it is in the interests of everyone that a UI works - bar belligerent Unionists/Loyalists - there will be a clampdown on any activity to destabilise it.
    That will entail Irish, British, US and the rest of the EU pooling intelligence to supress any activity.

    This isn't the 70's or the 80's.
    If the IRA tried to mount a campaign against all those odds they would struggle too. The IRA could bomb the centre of London and British cities and even the British cabinet. They would struggle to do that now.

    It is not going to happen. Extreme loyalists meet in the upstairs rooms of pubs these days and wreck their own areas mostly. Burning a few buses, or even sadly randomly killing a few catholics is not going to achieve anything.
    Moderate Unionism has accepted that if they cannot muster a majority NI is over. They accepted that in the GFA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,786 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You did not answer the questions. Do try again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    Mein Kampf??? Are you on drugs or something?

    I'm stating historical fact. Are you seriously attempting to deny reality?

    As for native Irish - the clue for the clueless such as yourself is in the name.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I did. It is here:

    This isn't the 70's or the 80's.

    If the IRA tried to mount a campaign against all those odds they would struggle too. The IRA could bomb the centre of London and British cities and even the British cabinet. They would struggle to do that now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,786 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I'll ask you again.

    Do you think the pIRA and other Republicans eg INLA were clamped down on by the Irish, British, US, and rest of EU security forces, after say, Enniskillen? Yes or No?

    Do you think the pIRA / INLA had a lot of of support from authorities south of the border eg help getting started ( Arms trial), help with safe bases to operate from, little or no extradition etc? Yes or No? You cannot have it both ways.

    Did the IRA and other Republican do a lot of damage to the N.I. economy ( as well as the wider UK economy) by their campaign ( many thousands of bombs, kidnappings and murders of foreign investors / industrialists, murders of judiciary, police, government employees from census taker to police, damage to tourism, extra security costs etc etc? Despite the UK being a G7 nation of 70 million population or whatever? Yes or No?

    Three yes or no questions. I bet you will not give three straight yes or no answers but instead go on about the belligerent unionists etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    Better just thinking about partition that actually having partition-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭Randycove


    which bit is fact? The one about there being no native Ulster Scots in Ireland, or the bit about the Germanic Scots?

    You seem to have taken a few actual bits of history and used them to create some kind of Irish version of the Aryan Race.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Do you think the pIRA and other Republicans eg INLA were clamped down on by the Irish, British, US, and rest of EU security forces, after say, Enniskillen? Yes or No?

    Yes, they tried. But the IRA was too big at that stage and technology not developed enough. They also were not working with one another intelligence wise, as they probably should have been

    Do you think the pIRA / INLA had a lot of of support from authorities south of the border eg help getting started ( Arms trial), help with safe bases to operate from, little or no extradition etc? Yes or No? You cannot have it both ways.

    Authorities = No, not a lot. Some incidents but no evidence of systemic collusion.
    Safe Houses = yes, the IRA had the advantage Loyalists didn't have. A network of support from ordinary people and a huge hinterland they could operate and train in.

    Did the IRA and other Republican do a lot of damage to the N.I. economy ( as well as the wider UK economy) by their campaign ( many thousands of bombs, kidnappings and murders of foreign investors / industrialists, murders of judiciary, police, government employees from census taker to police, damage to tourism, extra security costs etc etc? Despite the UK being a G7 nation of 70 million population or whatever? Yes or No?

    Yes, they set out to damage the economy and succeeded in NI and GB as did all the other violence.

    Are these not well known facts about the conflict?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    Germanic Scots are not native to Ulster. Here is some more news for you - man has landed on the moon.

    And why do you feel the need to smear me with Nazism? Don't you realise that the Scots in Ulster are actually Germanic, and not to be confused and conflated with our fellow Scotti (as in Irish) in Ulster who returned to Ireland?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Finally an admission from a PIRA supporter that they set out deliberately to make ordinary people suffer. The nonsense of military and governmental targets finally exposed for what it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    The IRA got rid of the 1920 government of Ireland act- why do Think it was in the GFA to remove it-

    Act(s of union got the boot-

    Very slow learner was Seamus Mallon who singlehandedly destroyed the SDLP-

    Their was nothing in Sunningdale to remove the armed brit army of Our Streets-

    Nothing in Sunningdale about removing Special branch-

    Nothing in Sunningdale about removing the thousands of brit soldiers / barracks from the border area-

    GFA done that- but the SDLP was to slow to see it-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I understand your position now. It is the Irish equivalent of the American white supremacist thesis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Eh?

    When they bombed the centre of Manchester and Canary Wharf or the Baltic exchange did the penny not drop for you that part of their campaign concerned economic targets?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,786 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I think you will find there was co-operation between different countries in combating the IRA : that is how the Marita Ann was captured for example. (The Marita Ann was a fishing trawler used to smuggle arms for the pIRA. In 1984, it was intercepted by the Irish Naval Service off the coast of Kerry, and a large quantity of arms and ammunition were seized. Who do you think tipped off the Irish Navy? ).

    You are right the pIRA had some support from south of the border eg Arms trial, lack of extradition, bases to train and operate from. All the more reason for unionists to not trust a UI.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    Don't be stupid - if you can.

    Care to actually refute any of my comments - if you can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I am not being stupid.

    You have already admitted that we Celts only arrived in Ireland in the first millenium BC and participated in the genocidal elimination of those already here. Then you admitted to the colonisation of other countries by us Celts over the following centuries which included the taking of slaves.

    Fast forward 2,000 years and you have the same thing happening to America.

    The weird thing is that you think that somehow gives us legitimacy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There was sporadic co-operation.
    Sadly it's quite clear that there was a lot more than Marita Ann getting through.

    I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell of that happening if the Irish, British, Us and rest of EU security forces are on the same page. Neither for loyalists or republicans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And?

    Are you only realising that now?

    All sides including the British attacked and killed civillians.

    You being exceptionalist again?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭Randycove


    Why are they not native to ulster and how do you know they are not Scotti?

    The Picts (the original Celtic peoples of Scotland) were more or less completely consumed by Gaels. Even today DNA testing can’t really tell the difference between the Irish and the Scottish.
    so surely, if this is the Gaelic motherland, then they belong here and aren’t actually squatters in our house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The PIRA have always denied targetting civilians. The facts have always been against them. It is interesting to see a prominent supporter accepting that they targetted civilians.

    What is true, and now accepted by you, is that the PIRA caused untold misery to ordinary people throughout their terrorist campaign. Jobs were lost, livelihoods were damaged, all for nothing.

    That is in addition to the untold number of middle-aged and older men who hobble around Northern Ireland because of the horrific PIRA practices of kneecapping and punishment beatings. Lives destroyed for which there has been no proper apology and no atonement.

    I haven't even mentioned those who were disappeared and those who were targetted in ethnic cleansing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Irish History


    You are being stupid. You are not just attempting to disenfranchise us native Irish from our native country, the Nation of Ireland and the Nation of Ireland from us - you are also by extension attempting to disenfranchise all people from their own countries/Nations.

    Fourth time - I am not going back to Adam and Eve nor the origins of man in Africa. I am referring to us native Gaels and our country Ireland which is named in our stead. We native Irish people, the Gael are obviously not foreign to our own native country Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I am not being stupid. I am pointing out historical facts that you do not deny and you do not refute, in fact, you have espoused these same facts yourself.

    Your claim is that because we ethnically cleansed this island when we arrived and subsequently colonised nearby countries and enslaved some of their people that we have some divine right to be native to this island at the expense of anyone else.

    As I said earlier, that is similar to white supremacist American thinking, just from a different historical date.

    I am not disenfranchising anyone, I have previously said that the only people who could ever possibly claim to be native are somewhere in a small corner of Africa. Everyone else is an invader, and in many of those cases, given there were several waves of movement out of Africa, they are also committed genocide and other atrocities along the way. Our hands aren't clean and a little humility in that regard expressed through openness to our fellow British natives of this island is more than required.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,287 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I am not and never was a supporter.

    The PIRA have always denied targetting civilians. The facts have always been against them. It is interesting to see a prominent supporter accepting that they targetted civilians.

    Like all armies the IRA engaged in terrorising. They spread terror. That is an armies job and the British army did it here, the IRA did it and Loyalists did it.
    Causing 'untold misery' is a staple of any conflicr/war I have ever seen or been aware of. That is why I am against war.

    Middle aged men and older men and women from all sides bear the scars of the conflict/war, not just victims of the IRA.

    Please tell me you do know this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    absolute nonsense. What would the US forces be doing in Banbridge?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    There were hours of warnings given to the English before the Tonne bombs exploted-

    Not one civilian was killed when the RA took out Manchester city centre in 1996- then Sinn Féin got into the talks in public GFA etc-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭Randycove


    does this mean we get to kick out the gingers? Apart from having no soul, they must also have some Norse ancestors and are therefore just squatting in our house.
    When we do kick out all of those foreigners, squatting in our house then we will finally have your dream of one people, one nation and preaumably Gerry Adam’s as the one leader?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    francie that works both ways, if you have evidence present it.
    and you can’t have it both ways. You tell us brits identified republicans to loyalists, then you tell us loyalists killed randomly. Y



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152




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