Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 02/09/25*

Some tiktok fella walking through the multicultural utopia that is Gardiner St gives his assessment of Dublin. If a beefy enough 20 year old doesn't feel safe, there's not much hope for everyone else!

Can you point to the proof that patients were not seen and died before immigration which was the original claim made by another poster . I got no reply or link from the poster on the claim.

Perhaps the reason you got no reply or link from the poster on the claim, is because that wasn't the claim that was made. You already tried to frame the claim as something else, I don't see why anyone else has to provide evidence for a claim which you make.

You cite valid reasons that people are living longer and get treatments that did not exist before . You however neglect to mention that the population has increased , it was 3.8 million in 2000 and today 5.4 million .The link mentions one example Aoife .

I didn't neglect to mention that the population has increased, I acknowledged that the population has increased in stating that far more people are living longer than in prior generations, and far more people than in prior generations are seeking healthcare. The report I linked to provides evidence of numerous systemic issues rather than just anecdotal evidence of a single issue, it's why I quoted that part specifically from a 246 page report, because it was the most relevant part to what we were discussing in terms of staff requirements and resources and the factors which lead to people who need immediate treatment, being overlooked.

Can you demonstrate that the government use of private contractors and the cross border scheme is bad value for the taxpayer .

I didn't say that the use of private contractors and the cross border scheme is bad value for the taxpayer; I said that Government are of the opinion that these services are better provided for by private contractors, which is true in the immediate term, but it's a poor long-term strategy in terms of providing value for the taxpayer. Consider it in terms of whether you'd rather rent a property, or own property, and the difference in long-term value should become immediately obvious. I also referred to the Treatment Abroad scheme, not any cross border scheme, as not making a dint in the figures.

You pay for private healthcare so you have no experience of waiting times .

You're positing that question as though it's a fact that because I pay for private healthcare now, I have no experience of waiting times. You have no basis upon which to make that claim, but you do anyway. It should be easy to understand that I didn't always have the ability to pay for private healthcare - there was the period between when I was covered under my parents policy, and when I was able to avail of my employers group policy, that I had to experience waiting times for procedures. Even paying for private healthcare doesn't make a difference to clinical decisions - it was determined at the time I was too young for a hip replacement, so 10 years on crutches waiting for it. I didn't die, obviously, but it was still pretty shít. Nowadays hip replacements are being done on much younger patients than I was at the time.

What information do I accept as fact ? Why are you so concerned about Ireland and proceed to lecture Irish people about immigration ?

You said that you assumed if I lived here it would be obvious that waiting times today are longer before being seen by a Doctor etc even with the level of foreign medical staff .

You're assuming I don't live here, which, if it weren't obvious by now, you have accepted it as fact that I don't.

In any case, I'm not particularly concerned about Ireland, and definitely not so concerned about immigration in Ireland as a tiny number of Irish people appear to be that they would use any means at their disposal to try and exclude anyone who isn't willing to validate their views from the conversation. The issue for those people is that they just don't have the authority, or the means, to do that.

You are aware that the HSE has only lifted the embargo on hiring staff over the last three weeks? They have been using agency staff to get around the embargo.

Your link to the HSE promise is noted. But it is contradicted by this thread on Reddit. A final year nursing student tells of her class being told that there was no money available to hire them despite the HSE promise.

"At the start of the year even with the embargo, we were all promised by the HSE and our training hospital that any nurse that is due to qualify this year will be guaranteed or eligible for a job this year. In one of my training hospitals, people completed interviews, rejected other jobs offers just to find out the hospital doesn’t have enough money to hire them."

Similar comments in the thread backed this up.

I’m aware of the yo-yo’ing with embargoes and restrictions every year. It’s even made clear from the Echo Live article you posted earlier that agency staff recruited from abroad themselves, are leaving Ireland and returning home at the end of their contracts because the cost of living in Ireland is just too high for them and there are better opportunities elsewhere in the world.

Like I said too, I knew this was going on 20 years ago, didn’t think it was still going on that nursing students were being told there were no employment opportunities for them in Ireland and they were better off to emigrate. Far as I was concerned it was simply an anecdote from one person based on their perspective, and that Reddit thread isn’t much better if I’m being completely honest. The HSE doesn’t promise that all graduates will GET jobs in Ireland, it says that they will be offered jobs, a distinction which is made quite clear when some candidates pointed out that they had been overlooked for positions by the HSE during the recruitment embargo last year-

The Journal asked the HSE why certain roles were filled by international candidates, rather than workers already on panels for jobs.

A spokesperson said: “International recruitment is considered where our own domestic recruitment activity failed to result in a qualified and competent candidate for particular roles.”

They said the 13 HSCPs were appointed across both community and acute settings. Some workers who started roles during the recent freeze may have been offered their roles prior to the recruitment embargo, they added.

However, The Journal has been told by some staff and management that international candidates were hired for certain roles which could have been filled by people already on panels, describing this as “a loophole” used to recruit people during the embargo. 

When the freeze on recruitment was lifted last month, the HSCP working in Dublin said she was hopeful she would be offered a role via a panel she was placed on last year.

However, she was “horrified” and “in shock” to find out that certain positions had since been filled via international recruitment, while she and others were already on panels.

https://www.thejournal.ie/international-recruitment-for-hse-jobs-6462236-Aug2024/

Seems that the HSE, like any employer, isn’t just interested in candidates who are qualified; they also want candidates who are competent, and that requirement isn’t so easy to fill as you’d like to imagine it is for the HSE if they were only to rely on recruitment from the pool of Irish graduates only. It’s not nice to hear it, obviously, which is why I don’t imagine any employer, much less anyone already employed by the HSE, is going to suggest to any new graduate that they don’t demonstrate competence to the degree that the HSE are looking for. That’d be just digging the knife in for no good reason 😒

Nothing to see here, just a doctor trying to perform an emergency tracheotomy on somebody with his scalpel. No need for RTE to report on it. 👀

In all seriousness, that guy in black was very lucky not to be injured or killed. Don't all martial arts trainers tell you to get the hell out of there if you see a knife.

I don't know what it will take for some people to open their eyes to the rapidly deteriorating law and order in this country. Yet rte and media gaslighting the public that its only Indians that are the victims. I have felt for a while that 2030 would be the point at which it may be too late to get to grips with things, but I'm actually starting to think it may be even sooner for irreversible change. Incidents like talbot street today, or the lad in east wall a couple weeks ago, to name only 2, are only reenforcing my thinking.

If stabbing three schoolgirls didn't do it, if stabbing AGS didn't do it, then I'm not quite sure anything can make the penny drop. Maybe a political victim

Perhaps there should be exclusion zones established for 'this kind of thing'?

The nurse recruitment situation sums up this country perfectly.

Young Irish nurses trained in the best facilities by the best teachers & staff you could ask for. Swap nurses for teachers/doctors/builders/engineers.

Once qualified we don't want to pay them a decent living wage so we allow them leave for nothing to other countries where they will be appreciated and paid for their expertise. The NHS will pay them, UAE will pay them, Aus and Canada will pay them.

Down the line the HSE gets a windfall of tax money to recruit, instead of hiring and chasing our best and brightest they get their recruitment "partner" to source staff, with overheads of massive bonuses to CPL and welcoming money to the Indian nurses sourced. What other country pays such bonuses to companies given tenders to source staff(without any public tender) and also who else pays such money for people to migrate? Would struggle to find many outside the oil states.

What an absolute shi*tshow. Now we have our national media sent on a government crusade to have us all hug an Indian, for fear of upsetting their well in train plans for the next decade.

You've got a point on nurses but doctors get paid a lot in Ireland. My partner works with doctors from France and Spain and Italy, all here for the salaries. Most Irish doctors leave to work abroad, and why wouldn't they, but most return too.

The claim you made still remains , did people die waiting for medical care before immigration ? I asked for proof none forthcoming .

The shortage of doctors here is entirely by choice. We have loads and loads of school leavers who want to study medicine. We have some good universities. We have a budget surplus. This should be a very easy problem to solve.

FG seem to be dodging alot of warranted flak lately. From this with 'Baby' and his son to Nathan McDonnell running drugs operations it's seems FG have a dirty shady underbelly.

While I have no admiration for SF whatsoever, if it were SF this was happening to it would be the topic for hot discussion across every TV and Radio show Ireland broadcasts.