Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 02/09/25*

I posted in after acknowledging that they had since reported it after it was published, you’ll see it if you go back over the thread

Also in print media, right here in North Strand

For much the same reason the cso no longer releases data on unemployment rates by country of birth, instead the metric has changed to citizenship curiously only since the 2022 census.

We also don't record crime by country of birth or even nationality apparently.

This case here would be a prime example of media reporting to avoid issues with social cohesion.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/rapist-in-hse-nursing-home-portrayed-himself-as-a-good-christian-man-report-finds/a2023161821.html

I think most people agree with this but it doesn't seem to be on the agenda of any government we've had.

Not directed at you, directed at this Syrian criminal who is in the country.

'' my posts were not saying a medical migration was a good thing just that it is ''

You seem to be expert at contradiction .

You made a specific claim, people do die before been seen but thats nothing to do with immigration .

There’s no contradiction there, you cut off the end of that sentence - ‘just that it is and has been happening here for decades’. Fairly easy to understand the point being made.

The fact is that with being able to attract qualified healthcare workers from abroad in greater numbers, it decreases the risk of people dying before they’re seen. There would be a lot more people dying before they’re seen if we couldn’t attract sufficient numbers from abroad to fill the gaps in the healthcare sector that can’t be filled from an unqualified native population because medicine just isn’t an attractive career choice for most people among the native population.

On the contrary, the proof, evidence which supports the statement, was provided earlier in the discussion. I don’t know how you missed it other than it didn’t correspond to your already held beliefs so you didn’t care for it’s validity. Waiting times today are longer for several reasons, the three main factors being existing overcrowding in hospitals, insufficient staff and inadequate resources, all due to cost-saving measures which are intended to provide value for the taxpayer. I mean, I’d rather better public services in terms of healthcare, but Government are of the opinion that these services are better provided for by private contractors, which is true in the immediate term, but it’s a poor long-term strategy in terms of providing value for the taxpayer. It’s why I pay for private health insurance - it doesn’t mean better treatment; it just means no waiting list like the public healthcare system.

Nobody has to live in Ireland to know that much. In the same way as I don’t have to live in India to be able to compare crime rates between India and Ireland, I can know that waiting times today in Ireland are much longer than they previously were because for one thing healthcare standards have improved significantly from what they were in prior generations, which means far more people are living longer than people used to in prior generations, and with far more people seeking healthcare, and not enough staff, and not enough resources to support staff, longer waiting lists and delays in treatment are inevitable, leading to an increasing number of people who are dying before they can be treated. The Treatment Abroad scheme doesn’t make much of a dint in the figures either.*

We’re talking here about healthcare in Ireland and attracting foreign workers to Ireland to work in healthcare, and you’re arguing that one could only know what it’s like if they live here? That’s a ridiculous argument considering the context in which it’s being made, as it’s as easy for me as it is for anyone outside of Ireland to be able to source independent research and data at a national level, right down to local level if they wanted, and I can use UHL as an example (from pg. 9 and 10 of the report) -

Underlying factors which led to the delay in treatment

The Report considers two particular general factors which played a material role in those events. First there is the undoubted fact that the number of patients presenting in the Emergency Department that night was extremely large while the number of nurses was five less than the full roster by reason of absences with the number of doctors being also one below full roster. While a significant increase in the number of nursing posts approved for the Emergency Department had been approved in the summer of 2022, those posts had not been filled by December. The evidence suggests that, as most nurses have to be recruited from outside the EU, it often takes 15 to 18 months to fill newly approved posts.

Patients are triaged in UHL in accordance with the Manchester Triage System. This places patients in categories 1 (the most severe) to 5 (the least acute). Aoife was triaged in Category 2. Under the Manchester Triage System, the ideal maximum time to first contact with a treating clinician for a patient categorised as Category 2, as Aoife was, is 10 minutes. Having regard to the number of patients who were triaged in Category 2 on the occasion in question and the number of doctors available, there was no reality to patients who were categorised in Category 2 being seen by a clinician within anything remotely resembling that timeframe. Indeed, it would appear that it would have taken over 10 hours (as opposed to 10 minutes) to see all Category 2 patients.

An ad hoc system was operating during the period in question whereby nurses could seek to have a patient, about whose deteriorating condition they were concerned, escalated up the list so as to be seen more quickly by a doctor. There is a conflict of evidence, dealt with in Chapters 5 and 6, concerning how that ad hoc system worked in relation to Aoife. Irrespective of that conflict of interest, the evidence suggests that the system, if it can be called that, was inadequate to deal with a very difficult situation where the large number of patients and limited number of nurses and doctors made the monitoring of patients with potentially deteriorating conditions much more difficult. There is now a more objective system in place to deal with potentially deteriorating patients (see Chapter 8).

https://about.hse.ie/api/v2/download-file/file_based_publications/Independent_Investigation_University_Hospital_Limerick_.pdf/

*And again, nobody has to be living in Ireland to know that. One could swear that some people think living in Ireland is a requirement to being able to source reliable information on a national level about the state of healthcare in Ireland. It’s not! I don’t know what difference you think living or not living in Ireland makes. There’s posters here citing international statistics to compare to Ireland to other countries and there’s no suggestion that they couldn’t know because they haven’t lived in those countries! It’s a silly attempt at exclusion from the discussion on a public forum on the Internet, nothing more.

I won’t comment on your assumption as to what you think should be obvious other than to observe that you’re quite willing to accept information as fact without there being any evidence whatsoever to support it, when it suits you to do so, but there’s nothing unusual about that either 🤨

We won't be taking any lectures from India, the rape capital of the world.

They should concentrate on getting their own house in order.

I don't normally praise the journal, but they have done some sterling work in investigating the case of Angel Care Consultancy and three Indian nurses being charged €3000 "agency fees" in order to get employment here. There is one problem though, this is illegal as the Protection of Employees (Temporary Agency Work) Act 2012 states that an employment agency shall not charge “an individual fee in respect of the making of any arrangement for the purpose of that individual’s being employed”.

Baby Perepaddan, FG councillor for Tallaght South, cofounded Angel Care Consultancy with businessman Babu Valooran Kochuvarkey. Mr Perrepaddan has claimed to be unaware of these nurses being charged such fees. But this gets murkier and murkier, one of the nurses claims that part of the fee requested was transferred to Babys son Britto Perrepaddan, who is also an FG councillor and is also working as a doctor in Tallaght Hospital.

According to the Journal, "One of the nurses paid a sum equivalent to just over €3,000 to the account of Britto Pereppadan, Baby’s son, who is a Fine Gael councillor in the Tallaght Central local electoral area." He is also working as a doctor in Tallaght University Hospital.

Like I said in a previous post, follow the money.