Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Who on God's green earth mentioned the Leinster schools system?

Oh I know. You did.

The quote was about whether the IRFU had neglected the provinces. You immediately turn it into something about the Leinster schools system. There's one person throwing around lazy tropes here, and it's you.

Not every discussion about the relationships of the provinces and the central IRFU has to fixate on bloody Leinster, you know. The other three provinces have entirely separate relationships with the IRFU. Ulster have had huge financial issues and operate in a completely different financial system to the other three, with no tax rebates and 20% VAT on tickets. It's entirely appropriate to discuss that in terms how the IRFU help (or don't) Ulster manage that.

But no, "why won't everyone just give over about the Leinster schools system?"

Oof. Yes I do. Apologies @Foxtrol

Well within your rights to be annoyed if that's all Fanning is doing. Hadn't re-read the original post about this since I first saw it.

So yes, sorry @Foxtrol

Sorry, TheV - dunno what came over me…

No problem - appreciate the apology.

I agree with the elements of your other post that weren't having a go at me 😀. Digging into the likes of Ulster jurisdiction situation is far more interesting. What impact that has, while the counterpoint being the cost of living for players etc.

There is a never ending list of insider information from within provinces that I'd be willing to pay to read, both how they work (or dont) and how they interact with the IRFU.

If the thesis statement is that provinces are 'neglected', like the OP says, I'd hope he actually provides significant evidence to prove that.

Each province could have their own book(s) written on inept decisions that led to significant wasting of IRFU resources. Just look at provinces being barely able to produce a top international player outside of Leinster underage system or abroad for a generation (the most recent Lions tourists are all the evidence you need). I'd read about the internal IRFU conflict and discussions with provinces as they deals with this poor output, how much they get their hands involved in coaching hiring/firing, player acquisition/movement, forcing structures, supporting facilities (both training and stadiums).

All of that is much more fascinating than the copy and paste history and finger pointing drivel that it sounds like Fanning is trying to peddle.

That's not the case at all with the list of guys here - of the 19 guys referenced, I think your description only applies to 9 players (Dylan Tierney Martin, Niall Murray, Darragh Murray, Caolin Blade, Matt Devine, Cathal Forde, Hugh Gavin, Shane Jennings, Fiachna Barrett)?

Denis Buckley is from Creggs, but was a 6 year boarder in Blackrock. Finlay Bealham is from Aus, and only moved to Connacht as an 18-19 year old. Dave Heffernan from Mayo, boarder in Blackrock.

Cian Prendergast is from Kildare, went to Newbridge, and captained Leinster Schools. Paul Boyle is from Wexford, played Leinster Youths. Chay Mullins is from Bristol in the UK, Billy Bohan from Kildare, went to Newbridge, Eanna McCarthy is from Cork and went to CBC, Sean Naughton from Kilkenny, went to Kilkenny College and James Nicholson went to Michaels.

52% of the players is not a "small percentage" from elsewhere, though I do agree with you it's getting better in recent years.

Yeah, I agree it's going the right direction, and most encouragingly, you're seeing these really high potential younger players coming through Connacht pathways: guys like Matt Devine, Hugh Gavin, Cathal Forde, and some of the Academy guys like Fiachna Barrett, Tomas Farthing & Sean Walsh.

It's a good sign that the standards of coaching and competitiveness is improving throughout the province.

there is a fine balance to be kept though and as much as a little bit more movement between provinces could be good, i also have zero interest in supporting leinster 'B' masquerading as my team. id imagine most other supporters would be of a similar opinion too

I'd say the coaching problems are also part of the responsibility of the IRFU. Executive management at Munster and Ulster has been very weak from what I can see. That's a whole other issue that Irish success has masked to some degree. I suspect there is a legacy old boy problem at both these provinces that has hindered a fully professional operation, and musical chairs coaching has been a symptom of it. Those are separate issues to the player surplus produced by Leinster schools, though. Would the likes of Penney & Connors have made Munster/Ulster/Connacht better teams and would the players have more caps as a result?

I don't buy this at all. Leinster fans don't see Henshaw or Doris as Connacht players, nor do they see Park as a kiwi player. This is just provincial one eyed stuff and is not relevant.

Currently the system is that Leinster schools produce the most players, the best of them go to Leinster who then make up the lions share of the Irish team (7 starters in the lions 3rd test team), something that is arguably more corrosive to the growth of the game and the success of the provinces. As it stands (and for the foreseeable future) most pro level Irish players come from Leinster schools, Leinster is not succeeding in developing all of them to the required level as there simply aren't enough games in the season to do that and have a competitive cohesive team. It is contributing to a highly unbalanced national system when Leinster have the pick of those schools players.

So if the 8 who should be jettisoned to keep the team pure? Maybe Beirne should be let go as he’s obstructing the development of a native Munster player? This is an internal conversation happening online among a tiny group of fans, and is absolutely irrelevant and embarrassing. Guys coming in as academy players or who are not well established players would be regarded as our own by 99% of Munster fans. Referring to the likes of Beirne or Conway as cast offs is just embarrassing.