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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,027 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'm not hoping it happens or anything like that. I've seen in the past a few times like what's went on with Ringrose.

    And most of these have been rugby, all bar one were provincial players. It's ended in retirement with three of the five rugby players I knew. Two went on, one retired three years later after a couple more concussions, he was 33 then, the other went on until he was 37 with no issues.

    Ringrose did the right thing and you can imagine how tough it must have been with a Lions start almost certain. The fact he was strong enough to do that makes me think he'll consider the long term over continuing to put his health at risk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,342 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    This is my take too; POM played well in the 6 Nations and certainly levels above what Healy was offering in open play at that point.

    I think the overall point is correct tho; the squad is definitely in need of freshening up now. We have had a big core of players who are all 30+ now and we’ll need to see some change come the AI’s imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭Juventu4


    He played well enough in the Scotland game but again lacks that big explosive impact that a 6 needs with his age and because we knew he was going new players should have been brought in sooner. Baird has been playing well at 6 because he's gotten a run there to build proficiency, what was happening before was he's playing lock, then next week sub lock, then notvinnthe squad followed by then being sub back row etc.

    Healy we'll all agree was a joke no other serious tier 1 nation would be playing a 37 year old with that fform. Fact is Ireland is slow to change and teams have now figured out are patterns in defence and attack, we'll have to rejig the system anyway so better to do that with some fresh faster new faces that have not being scouted and analysed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,342 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    POM has never had explosive impact but is our highest capped backrow ever. Depending on the build elsewhere, it’s not completely vital for the position.

    Baird started the first game of the 6 Nations and didn’t really grasp the nettle - imo he was poor defensively that day and POM came back in. Come season’s end it looked like he was front of the queue to replace POM at 6, but Beirne’s performances now (and McCarthy’s too) muddy the water a bit.

    System-wise, I think we have seen a change last season to be fair. Much kick heavier, fewer rucks, fewer passes per ruck and less phase play in general.

    I definitely agree with the overall jist tho - I think we need to see the squad being freshened up (imo it should have happened more in the last Autumn International’s ). And if it is, it’ll be interesting to see it how goes while at the same time trying a different style.

    Feels like a big season for Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,027 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I think it's going to happen but not that quickly.

    I expect to see Gavin and Osbourne at centre, Baird or Prendergast will fight for the bench at 6 if Beirne continues there, he played second row in the Six nations. You might see Izuchukwu get an opportunity in the second row if Beirne continues at 6. It's hard to see a change at tighthead yet because both Furlong and Bealham are still playing at such a high level and there's nobody close to them. I'd call that a position of concern moving forward.

    Scrum half is another position. JGP is great but you've got Casey, Murphy and Devine who all look ready for the jump if the opportunity arises.

    Wing is another position where we need to find someone to replace Lowe whose coming to the end of his career. I'm not sure which of the O'Briens is the one I like but I think it's Jimmy. We really need somebody young to break through for the long term. Somebody said there's a younger Osbourne that looks promising.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭Juventu4


    Not sure long term is ideal playing Beirne at 6, as he's not as mobile considering he's been conditioned for years to play second row and he's older and heavier. Again about Baird it's one game then dropped you can't improve younger players doing that, they need to be given a run to develop and the Autumn internationals is the time to do it. England started the 6 Nations poorly with new faces but improved and finished much stronger than Ireland and look to be a head and better of in the long term, Ireland look to have wasted the last 9 months with the same old retiring faces of Murray, Healy, O'Mahony not to mention Henshaws legs are gone, Aki now 35, Lowe 33 with a known arthritis condition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Changes at international level will depend on the clubs, Leinster mainly, grasping the nettle and deliberately moving on from dead weight.

    Cullen needs to be aggressive backing new blood in the backs particularly. 9, 11, 12 & 13 are positions that we have incumbents who are past it or on the precipice. I don't want to see Henshaw as the starting 12, and hope that Cooney or someone will get decent game time at 13. We need to find a viable replacement for Lowe. Gunne should be as many matchday 23s as possible.

    The forwards are in a decent enough spot, outside of 7 perhaps



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,342 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Just on the 9 position, I think we’ve better options in the other Provinces so even if Cullen moves on from McGrath on the bench, I don’t see it impacting Ireland selection significantly.

    Casey had a brilliant season and was desperately unlucky with his injury around the 6 Nations. I think his recent captaincy shows his standing across the squad. Honestly think he could push JGP for a starting spot in the coming season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    If Baird can continue the form he showed at the end of last season and through the URC playoffs I’d expect him to make the 6 jersey his own, while we rotate Beirne, Ryan and McCarthy at lock.

    Curious to see if TOB can step up and put pressure on Mack Hansen for the 14 shirt. Farrell loves Hansen and he brings a lot at his best, but TOB has a pretty rare skillset for an Irish winger.

    Jack Boyle has a relatively loose grip on the 17 shirt for Ireland - but he’ll need a strong season to keep it. He should get plenty of chances with Porter rested, Healy retired and Milne moved on. A big chance for Milne this season to show he can challenge there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I wouldn't be surprised if Casey surplants JGP by the end of the season, he's been in cracking form.

    I think TOB will own the 14 jersey for as long as he's healthy. He's just class.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,297 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    If Ryan, Mccarthy and Beirne are all fit, the temptation to play them all with Beirne at 6 will be very strong. Might not be the most forward looking selection but if we want to beat NZ in Chicago, it might not be the worst.

    I don’t think TOB will displace Hansen but he’s already ahead of Nash and we might see Hansen move to the left when Lowe moves on, with TOB on the right. Lowe needs a big season to prove he’s still up to it.

    Centre will be fascinating. At 35, there’s no way Aki will make the RWC and to me it looks like his legs are going. Henshaw has yet another injury to come back from, Ringrose is flying but now has this concussion issue hanging over him. Assuming Osborne is next off the rank, it would be good to see someone else get a run against Japan.

    The main thing is, while we have some older guys in some positions, we have decent cover everywhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Aki and Henshaw were clearly past it this past season. Why does every Irish coach inevitably fall into the trap of keeping players on far too long? I hope Farrell doesn't continue to play Beirne at 6, it worked for the Lions but he's just a step down there from when he's at lock



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭Juventu4


    Multiple Irish coaches have done it so it must be a directive from the auld blazers in IRFU HQ. If you're on a central contract they'll play till your legs are shot just so they've squeezed everything out of you even if your form is poor.

    Might be forced to move Aki on but Henshaw will be played no doubt. This is what is holding Ireland back and reasons why we can't break the quater finals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Then they’ll put in one good performance and everyone will go “oh look, we were right to keep playing them all along” and they’ll lock down the jersey for another year and we’ll continue to kick the can down the road



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    9 is going to be a key debate for sure. JGP has lots still to offer and writing him off prematurely is unwise. Casey is on form and next up is Gunne who I think will shine in coming season as a serious talent



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Farrell (and Cullen) have been terrible for subbing JGP off in big games. McGrath for example has sat on the bench for the last 3 finals I think. We need options that are good enough to make for viable options to come on in crunch matches.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭sliabh 1956


    I heard Brendan Fanning on the radio yesterday he has a book coming out about the state of Irish rugby. In it he says going forward Irish Rugby is in trouble due to the neglect of the provinces by the Irfu. That Ireland are so dependant on Leinster is detrimental in the long run. Also its the Leinster School systems not the Leinster Academy that are responsible for the players that graduate to play for Leinster. according to him its the Fee paying schools that are keeping Leinster and Ireland rugby afloat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Probably due to lack of contenders to replace an established player. In England or France there are many more club sides, and consequently that many more challengers for a national team shirt. And in NZ/Australia a certain percentage of players will look to cash in on their profile by moving to the Northern Hemisphere when they reach the final few seasons of their careers, meaning national team coaches have to look for fresh talent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Edwin Edogbo is my hope for a big breakthrough, he's an absolute beast. But huge questions about fitness after (another) serious injury.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The provinces haven't been neglected so I've no idea what he's on about.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    That's the kind of open-minded, questioning mindset that marks our Irish rugby fandom as really deep thinkers about the game.

    "Read it and see what it says? No need. I know he's wrong."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Author courts controversial view point to sell book. That could be another take.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,932 ✭✭✭KaneToad




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Coiuld be.

    What's crucial is that we make up our minds about it now, before anyone's so much as read a page. That's the important thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    He's facing a real challenge to have a career tbh, which is shite. Lad looks like a serious unit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭typhoony


    Sheahan with a 3 match ban for a dangerous clearout reduced from 4 weeks. I dont think Sheahan has ever had a ban before



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 26,593 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Other than he getting a ban, it really makes no difference to him. Leinster have a ton of matches before he'd be expected to play in them and they'll use that as his 3 match ban



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 272 ✭✭letsbefair


    Does Brendan Fanning think the Leinster schools are going to suddenly stop producing high class players. I have news for him they are getting better every year. The Leinster clubs are also upping their game and rugby is thriving. I can''t comment on the other provinces but believe there is a lot of investment going on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,402 ✭✭✭mr_edge_to_you


    This is where the Central Contracts become really problematic I think.

    A 33 yr old player at the end of his current contract flouts the idea of going to France to be flogged but earn seriously better money. Obviously the IRFU can't afford to let one of their big names go and play overseas because their priority is all about the senior team and winning the 6N each year. So the player gets offered a 2 year contract with money that must be comparable to what is on offer elsewhere which results in a massive PR exercise keeping sponsors happy, the team competitive and the Aviva full with corporate tickets.

    2 year contract brings the player up to the current world cup and which point we get knocked out in the QF because we have an aging squad.

    A (current) 32 yr old player will sign a further one year contract after the world cup.

    Wash, rinse, repeat.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Moaning about the Leinster school system is hardly a sign of 'deep thinkers' - it is a lazy trope at this stage. It isn't some fresh concept, it gets regurgitated multiple times a year.

    The Leinster school system is what is keeping Irish rugby alive, yet people twist themselves in complete knots trying to find a way for it to seem like a bad thing.

    It is akin to the anti-vax movement at this stage. I don't need to read the latest anti-vax book to know it belongs in a bin.

    What would be much more interesting is digging in on how much money has been squandered across the other provinces to have such poor return on investment from the IRFU - at underage and professional. Digging into the blazers who oversaw such farcical situations and what can be learned from them going forward. That would however take some level of journalism so easier to take the path of least resistance, the tried and trusted click bait moan about Leinster.



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