Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

I'd say the coaching problems are also part of the responsibility of the IRFU. Executive management at Munster and Ulster has been very weak from what I can see. That's a whole other issue that Irish success has masked to some degree. I suspect there is a legacy old boy problem at both these provinces that has hindered a fully professional operation, and musical chairs coaching has been a symptom of it. Those are separate issues to the player surplus produced by Leinster schools, though. Would the likes of Penney & Connors have made Munster/Ulster/Connacht better teams and would the players have more caps as a result?

I don't buy this at all. Leinster fans don't see Henshaw or Doris as Connacht players, nor do they see Park as a kiwi player. This is just provincial one eyed stuff and is not relevant.

Currently the system is that Leinster schools produce the most players, the best of them go to Leinster who then make up the lions share of the Irish team (7 starters in the lions 3rd test team), something that is arguably more corrosive to the growth of the game and the success of the provinces. As it stands (and for the foreseeable future) most pro level Irish players come from Leinster schools, Leinster is not succeeding in developing all of them to the required level as there simply aren't enough games in the season to do that and have a competitive cohesive team. It is contributing to a highly unbalanced national system when Leinster have the pick of those schools players.

So if the 8 who should be jettisoned to keep the team pure? Maybe Beirne should be let go as he’s obstructing the development of a native Munster player? This is an internal conversation happening online among a tiny group of fans, and is absolutely irrelevant and embarrassing. Guys coming in as academy players or who are not well established players would be regarded as our own by 99% of Munster fans. Referring to the likes of Beirne or Conway as cast offs is just embarrassing.

Not sure I agree with that last paragraph. Without players from outside the province there is a pretty good chance they don't get top 8 or Champions Cup. I would imagine Munster supporters would rather knock out rugby and Champions Cup than watching a load of average players because they went to CBC and Crescent.

I’d disagree that it harks back really. Ireland is fairly unique I’d think in that rugby is administered by the provinces so from the time they join the local u5 in their club they are in the provinces system. All the supports for coaches are from the province kids are constantly seeing links with the province. Pro clubs elsewhere just don’t have those links. It’s mostly luck that it worked out that way but it does make for a much stronger identity than elsewhere.

While I agree with the principle, and while Josh Wycherley did play well against La Rochelle, I think it's fair to say he hasn't developed as much as we would have hoped since, say, when he played well against Clermont nearly 5 years ago now.

They're both 26, and Milne has already shown he's an upgrade on Wycherley, particularly with his carrying (tho I think Wycherley's handling is a little underrated).

My own take is that with the change to the provinces contributing 40% of CC's from next season, Milne is exactly the kind of guy down the Leinster depth chart who is likely to move i.e. 3rd+ choice.

I think it is more Kelleher who is in Gus' way. 2nd choice front rows get a lot of minutes even off the bench so being backup in a better team. Being 3rd choice is definitely a hinderance.

What on earth has happened to rugby at Methody?

I don't think anyone has forgotten that, it's just not that relevant any more. Fewer and fewer rugby fans identify with a club.

point is simply that these tastes and preferences change very quickly and the notion that kids won’t play rugby unless they can do it with a particular team is based on nothing more than vibes.

Multiple players have recently had the choice of moving from Leinster to another province or to go abroad and have chosen foreign soil - that seems like far more than 'vibes' (trying my best not to vomit as I type that word).

New Zealand's provincial system dates back 150 odd years. Players get selected in loads of age grade provincial sides. But if they want to be a pro and have rugby as a career, lots of them move.

imo that what makes the provinces a bit special though, id hate to see irish rugby become the same as soccer or the american sports where the players dont really have any connection to their teams most of the time apart from it being their job. obviously professionalism means that it is a job first for the players but i would hate to see that leave the game completely