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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,046 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Interesting article. I hope we don't have to wait 45 years after ML opens (hopefully) to see the ribbon cut on DU, whatever path it takes!

    What are the next steps with DART+ West? Do we have any concrete dates yet?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,354 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Just wondering about Glasnevin station. Is that part of DART plus project or metrolink project or both? Say if DART plus all goes to plan and there is (hopefully not) an issue with metrolink project. Where would the DART interchange be without Glasnevin station? Would it be Drumcondra?

    I can see Drumcondra being heavily used station on match days in Croke Park for passengers from multiple counties along the Cork mainline.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,768 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    It is in Metrolink's Railway Order. There is no other interchange between all line permutations.

    Drumcondra will become much quieter except for match days, as DCU Ballymun campus students and airport traffic will be on Metrolink.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,354 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Would we not assume residents in the Drumcondra area will make more use out of the much more interconnected DART network? And hopefully an easy connection to Metrolink one station over? Luas two stations over?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,768 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That won't come close to replacing the displaced DCU/airport traffic. There is much more local traffic than there used to be - plenty getting off the trains coming from Grand Canal Dock or getting on city bound trains in the morning; but when each morning train disgorges a busload plus of connecting passengers it would take huge growth to replace.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,354 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Ya maybe, hopefully there will be additional residential projects in the area sooner rather than later but going to be great for sports and concert fans accessing Croke Park for major events.

    Will be great for attendees



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭spillit67


    There would surely be a fair few who’d swap out the bus or walking to connect with Metrolink on Glasnevin and go onwards to south of the river. Seems like a 27-28 min bus / Luas currently to St Stephen’s Green, that would be probably be cut down to 15.

    Did they put models on this into the RO?



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Just on the station at SSG, due to the increased depth of the line now required because of the Metrolink tunnel, the station will have to be mined out rather than cut and cover. I would think that any station plan here would no longer require the lake to be drained.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,867 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Dart Underground discussion:

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239366/dart-underground-options/p18#latest

    There's been pages of it here and IMO it's off topic for this thread.

    Put your money where yer mouth is... Subscribe and Save Boards!

    https://subscriptions.boards.ie/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭nordydan


    https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/woodbrook-dart-station-to-open-on-10th-august



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Just on Drumcondra Station, this should increase demand.

    https://holycrosscollegelrd.ie/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,317 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Much ado about nothing really. The updated NDP isn't going to downgrade any of the rail plans. The order will be put in as soon as the new NDP is published.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 105 ✭✭A1ACo


    Overall it seems a bit of a pity to pause on an order for what are replacement of (old) trains, something of an operational issue almost, and seemingly couple that decision to order, onto a review that generally relates to far more strategic new schemes and projects.

    Also, even if they had decided to do a final refurb' on the old DARTs they would still be looking at a replacement sooner rather than later when existing unit's age, the time lag from order to delivery, and time getting new units into established and reliable service is included, and noting all the other expanded and electric services plans well progressed already that require new trains.

    Also, who really knows how long the review could actually take to be done and signed off on and what might turn up economy wise etc in the interim.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    It’s a pause on the order but it won’t necessarily be a pause the delivery. Currently Alstom is still building the first 37 trains (185 carriages) ordered by IÉ back in 2021 and late 2022. Three are on site in Dublin for type approval, and the first trains are expected to enter revenue service at the start of 2026, but the last one isn’t due to do so until 2027.

    This really is an attempt by the media to create some outrage during what is normally a quiet time in politics. The NDP review will be done soon, the replacements for the 8100s will be ordered, and, because the factory isn’t finished the first order yet, the first new trains will arrive on the exact same day that they would have if they’d been ordered six months ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 734 ✭✭✭bbbbb


    Saw these at clontarf rd.

    20250716_211008.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,103 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    A DART+ train was moving around on it's own, without the aid of an additional locomotive, in North Wall sidings last Saturday.

    Although; it had to be attached to a 3 carriage ICR while going up presumably from Fairview Depot to North Wall.

    This Youtube video showing it's movements is not mine btw. Credit goes to Irish Rail Spotter on Youtube.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,427 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Its not allowed out on the live railway under its own power, only in sidings or under engineer possession.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91 ✭✭PH0NER


    Pardon my ignorance, but I don't understand why it needs such a lengthy test period.

    They've already been testing these new trains for a few months. They can obviously see it's running and has been doing so all these months. How can there possibly be so many tests to confirm these trains can run on the line?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35 thosewhoknow


    New types always need a long period of testing to ensure that they won’t act up in service. The drivers need to be familiar with their operation, especially with introduction of new technologies like batteries. It took 15 months of testing before the original DARTs went into service. Not to mention that only 3 of the 37 units have been delivered so far.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,561 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Worth keeping in mind that it is a relatively unique circumstance. Usually trains get tested by the manufacturer on the tracks around the factory before shipping to the customer. That isn't possible for trains made for Ireland as we use a unique rail gauge, different from the rest of Europe, so that sort of factory testing wasn't possible and has to be done in Ireland instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Regarding "only 3 of 37", I would be extremely surprised if by now there wasn't a good number of completed trains waiting in Poland for delivery once IÉ gives the word. They're still at the factory because if anything shows up during the type approval process, some rework or replacement of parts might be needed to fix that issue. The best place to do that is at the factory.

    As @bk says, usually most of this testing is done locally, but even in countries with standard rail gauge, a new model of train needs to be tested by the customer on its own railway to see how it works in terms of stability, comfort, wear on wheels and tracks, etc. But once the type of train has been approved, each subsequent train of that type that is delivered will only need a couple of weeks testing to make sure it's working correctly before going into service.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,317 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    And in this case its further complicated by being a bi mode battery/electric, which is a relatively untested thing worldwide and nothing like it has run in Ireland so that adds more testing, you've got to do multiple runs once approved for mainline running to test battery capacity, running from low charge to see can it make the journey to the charger in an emergency etc.

    GWR in the UK spent over a year testing their battery train on the Greenford branch for various scenarios, and while this is obviously a more "tried" system, not by much, and we are planning to run it over a much greater distance than the Greenford branch!

    Boards is in danger of closing very soon, if it's yer thing, go here (use your boards.ie email!)

    👇️ 👇️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,103 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    The new DART+ Fleet haven't been seen yet on the DART+ South Coastal line either.

    They have to test out a number of scenarios whether the trains can be adequate to run in a raft of situations on the section between Connolly & Bray and the Bray-Greystones-Wicklow line before they go into passenger service.

    With that particular section of railway line being single track only which can makes things difficult if the newer trains have a potential breakdown with the batteries within the tunnels between Bray & Greystones while heading down to Wicklow.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    They're battery electric trains. They will run on the OHLE when running on the current Dart lines. And the trains that will eventually run on Dart+ South ( which hasn't even started the preliminary design stage yet) will be fully electric.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,427 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    There are two levels of test

    1. First in class, so for a new design there is an extensive test program to validate design, compliance and compatibility, this is non trivial and typically takes over a year. This is done on pre production sets before the main production run kicks off to ensure modifications are built in.
    2. Commissioning test, this is a shorter test, a few weeks at most once the design has passed on the regulatory and certifications. This is functional test to verify everything works and then a few thousand km of test running without faults.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 265 ✭✭jwm121


    What is the estimate of when the new trains will enter into service?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Last official communication said the testing was going well and that they were on schedule to be phased in from early next year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    I “heard” yesterday that set 1 and 2 will return to Poland for final modifications after the initial testing in Ireland to finalise the product and train 3 will effectively be the first train in service…

    Now, I don’t know if this contact (usually ok) was correct or not. They have had some issues that need to be ironed out.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six




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