Thinking of moving to EV

...Ghost... · 28-07-2025 04:24PM

I'm inclined now to stop giving out honest advice to people considering going EV. The threads are consistently sabotaged by certain crusaders giving false and irrelevant information. I don't blame @weadick for being turned off changing. If I was new to the forum, I would have been well put off by the amount of bile spewed here.

@weadick Consider EV when changing your car anyway. Your use case is ideal. Best of luck.

MojoMaker · 28-07-2025 04:26PM

Absolutely.

@weadick a Renault 5 or a Cupra Born would be ideal for what you've described.

Whatever you do however, steer clear of the ID3, because…….bad luck you know 🤷

Flinty997 · 28-07-2025 04:50PM

I agree it's getting impossible to have a reasoned discussion about EVs on this forum.

Op maybe ask on the main motoring thread about your ICE options. There's pros and cons to keeping the Volvo going or updating it with something a few years younger. My tipping point is when the repairs become more often and more expensive. But on a car that's worth zero, squeezing as long out of it makes sense

AndrewJRenko · 28-07-2025 04:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123675887#Comment_123675887

"could argue that all the mining needed for EV is in anyway better for the environment. As it stands now, there is no environmentally friendly car or vehicle, there are less harmful than others. Just looking at local emissions and lower Co2 emissions over the lifecycle of the car is meaningless if half the earth is dug up and destroyed in the process, which is usually in poorer countries where people can't object to the destruction to their land which is often taken without their permission."

No one did argue that "that all the mining needed for EV is in anyway better for the environment", you're just strawmanning now. Just looking at the environmental harm done in manufacturing EVs is meaningless without looking at the environmental hard done in manufacturing ICE vehicles.

Mad_Lad · 28-07-2025 11:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123676147#Comment_123676147

Sadly, you're missing a huge point, EV need 6 times the amount of minerals vs ICE, now, think about this for a bit, if we're to scale up mining to supply EV batteries to replace combustion entirely, then we will have an absolutely gigantic destruction of land to supply minerals for all these batteries, this can be 100% avoided or rather made the same as ICE if burning hydrogen in combustion vehicles.

Even if we change to LiFeP04 tomorrow it won't solve the problem of the scale of mining needed.

Even if we were to eliminate lithium or find lithium 100% sustainably it wouldn't make much of a difference because Lithium accounts for around 1-2% of the minerals need for EV battery.

While mining for all that we need now is already damaging to the environment and the landscape the amount we will need for global replacement of combustion can't be comprehended.

If we could somehow mine minerals from space in the future this would be amazing.

Mad_Lad · 28-07-2025 11:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123677375#Comment_123677375

If you really want to change then why not ? it's the only real way you will discover whether EV is for you or not, I would go with Hire Purchase and if you don't like how EV works you can still use the half rule to get out after 50% of the loan is paid off with no financial repercussions but you will have no car if you can't just pay it off then.

Mad_Lad · 29-07-2025 12:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123677275#Comment_123677275

You are missing the distinction between energy consumed over time like fuel and materials extracted at the beginning like the metals in an EV battery. These are not directly comparable.

Fuel is indeed burned and gone forever and yes it adds up to a massive amount over a car’s lifetime. But that does not change the fact that EVs require significantly more mined materials to manufacture. A typical EV battery needs 6 times minerals all extracted processed and transported before the car even drives a single kilometre.

The point is not to defend fossil fuels. They have obvious downsides. But replacing that system with one that depends on huge up front mining operations brings serious challenges of its own. These include environmental damage human rights concerns and high energy use for refining battery materials and converting them into actual battery cells in Chinese factories that care little about Human rights and how energy is produced or how chemicals are disposed of.

There is also still no large scale closed loop recycling system for EV batteries. Most processes today recover only a small portion of the materials and often in forms that are not easily reused. That may improve but it is not the current reality.

So no it is not misleading to point out that EVs come with their own set of issues. Pretending otherwise oversimplifies the problem. Real solutions require looking at the full picture including all trade offs.

Mad_Lad · 29-07-2025 12:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123677698#Comment_123677698

Sabotaged because you and others here can't have your echo chamber with opposing comments deleted.

electricus · 29-07-2025 01:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123679004#Comment_123679004

You’re assuming that battery technology will always depend on lithium. However, there are alternatives, such as sodium-ion batteries, that can use sodium extracted from sources like salt water. No nickel or cobalt required.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery

As you mentioned, there isn’t much Lithium, or Cobalt and Nickel in EV batteries and the other materials are things like copper, steel, and plastic - nothing you won’t find in any combustion vehicle.

Producing, storing, and transporting hydrogen presents significant technical and economic challenges. Scaling up hydrogen infrastructure would require large amounts of precious metals and other advanced materials, which may not be available in sufficient quantities or at reasonable costs to fully replace oil. This is why most hydrogen currently produced is not from renewable sources. Using electricity to produce synthetic methane could be a more practical solution.

See: Electricity-driven catalyst for climate-neutral methane production

Not all fossil fuel alternatives rely on batteries. For example, electric trains, as well as heating and cooling systems for buildings, can operate directly on electricity without the need for battery storage.

Maybe you should read some of the replies here before just repeating the same points again!

electricus · 29-07-2025 02:04AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123679070#Comment_123679070

An odd remark coming from someone who uses this forum as their own personal echo chamber, endlessly repeating the same posts like a broken record.

Flinty997 · 29-07-2025 07:19AM

"...fossil fuel economy requires 535 times more mining than a clean energy economy..."

"...Currently, most hydrogen is produced from fossil fuel sources …. In fact, over 98% of hydrogen produced today is categorized as gray hydrogen…"

"...A typical conventional (gasoline-powered) car contains rare earth elements, with the majority used magnets and catalytic converters...."

...Ghost... · 29-07-2025 08:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123679070#Comment_123679070

Nobody wants an echo chamber and personally I like to see different opinions and experiences laid out. I dont like to see the same opinion plastered in every other post.

I don't know how many posts you've made on this thread alone, but I know it's a lot and that they are a repeat of the same few opinion pieces you now hold. Echo chamber. Deleted comments. Mined minerals. Hydrogen. Charging infrastructure. EV v ICE range. Single person transport and the joy of driving a picanto.

The echo in the chamber is not coming from where you say. I don't know what happened to you and wat change in circumstances you've had, but you're not helping anyone in here, least of all yourself. I've been here 20 years and have had heated debates. Never before now have I considered using the ignore button. Please consider how and what you are posting and ask yourself if you've already made your point.

Flinty997 · 29-07-2025 08:54AM

It's getting to the point where you'd have to consider ignoring anyone who quotes these posts. It's too easy to be baited into a reply.

I came on this thread to have a discussion about an old Volvo and back legroom. It might be time to admit it's no longer possible on boards.

User1998 · 29-07-2025 09:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123679302#Comment_123679302

Ignoring him doesn’t even work because of other posters replying to his posts.

mr chips · 29-07-2025 09:41AM

"A typical EV battery needs 6 times minerals all extracted processed and transported before the car even drives a single kilometre."

And if all cars were only manufactured to be driven for one day, you might have a point. But they aren't, so you don't.

MightyMunster · 29-07-2025 10:26AM

I've found an easy solution to the issues with this thread (and all other EV threads)

Flinty997 · 29-07-2025 10:29AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058419032/thinking-of-moving-to-ev

Get the Renault. Not much space in the rear but it's cool and you're only this age once in your life.

mr chips · 29-07-2025 11:26AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123679397#Comment_123679397

Apologies, I hadn't seen your post before submitting mine. I think the problem with just allowing anyone to spout half-informed drivel without any pushback is that it's counterproductive for people who are here trying to get some proper advice based on real-world experience and balanced views. A properly moderated discussion forum can still do a better job of providing that than the likes of facebook et al, but if misinformation isn't being removed then the next best option is for people who know better to counter the tide of bullsh1t.

Ironically, given the constant drivel spouted in recent days about range limitations, I was one of the people who'd been looking to this forum for guidance about an EV that would be able to meet my genuine need for one which could cope with a regular 440km journey. I had a few comments about how nobody really needs that, but my use case is a bit of an outlier and I had no problem acknowledging that without getting all worked up about it. Thanks in no small part to what I've read here, I've ended up with a highly reliable car which will do what I need it to, with the minimal compromise of an extra 15-20 minutes of a stop to charge when doing those long drives (otherwise, 99% of charging is done when the car is sitting idle and I'm otherwise occupied). That brings the total travel time for that trip from about 4 hours 40 to around 5, possibly less - something I can easily live with given all the other benefits, instead of bitching and moaning about wasted hours or whatever. I could have waited another year or two for the price of a 500km range EV to fall within my budget, but I know that in the interim I'd have spent a fair chunk of the difference in price on the more expensive fuelling, repairs and maintenance of the diesel car anyway.

Flinty997 · 29-07-2025 11:55AM

I think most people even those enthusiastic about EVs will advise that's they don't suit everyone. There will be a valid case for ICE for a very long time, perhaps always.

If someone decides they don't want to wait 20 mins extra once or twice a year on their annual holiday or whatever then that's ok. I just don't want to hear about in every thread.

Flinty997 · 29-07-2025 11:58AM

Maybe the OP could update the thread with anything further they want to add or discuss. I've completely lost track.

You can always rent a car to see how you get on with it. Some garages do a long test drive.

MojoMaker · 29-07-2025 03:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123679524#Comment_123679524

Only half the battle - the other half is seeing those posts when someone quotes them, which defeats the exercise.

AndrewJRenko · 29-07-2025 04:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123679068#Comment_123679068

"A typical EV battery needs 6 times minerals all extracted processed and transported before the car even drives a single kilometre."

What minerals are you referring to here?

6 times what?

What is the actual scale of these minerals in the EV, in terms of weight and cost?

Please provide some actual details to backup this claim.

weadick · 30-07-2025 05:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123679778#Comment_123679778

I've kind of gone off the whole idea to be honest. A lot of stuff written here it's hard to digest. It was mainly the buzz of seeing the new R5 that got me interested. My own car is old but reliable so I should be grateful for that really.

JohnySwan · 30-07-2025 06:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123683915#Comment_123683915

It was mostly off topic nonsense, if you want to change your car an EV is ideal in for you. No need to buy new either.

Ignore all the noise, I have two of them and do about 40,000 km per year between the two. Multiple trips from Cork to Dublin, Cork to West Kerry and Cork to Galway every year. I've been all over the country, had to wait once for 10 minutes for a charge.

That poster spouting the off topic crap has an agenda.

Flinty997 · 30-07-2025 06:27PM

You might get less nonsense and noise but more positivity in the R5 thread.

For some reason I can't post the link.

I still have an old ICE and an EV. I like the toys of the newer car, like Automatic Cruise Control, preheating in the winter and a heated windscreen, vastly better headlights with auto dim. Up to date sat nav with Android Auto, and my streaming music and podcasts.

But I like the simplicity of the older car, Sometimes I'll take the manual simply for the crack. But maintenance is a pain..

Buddy Bubs · 30-07-2025 06:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123683915#Comment_123683915

Go over to the R5 thread and ask owners, like me. Ive 1000km done in a month so I know it well at this stage, including one long 400km drive today, I did have to stop though! But not for long.

MojoMaker · 30-07-2025 06:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123683915#Comment_123683915

That would be a shame as your use case seemed ideal for an EV. There is a poster here with an axe to grind against anyone in a position to afford a new EV and his words are not really reflective of the modern ownership experience. Honestly - switch over and you'll genuinely never look back.

Thinking of moving to EV

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