Thinking of moving to EV

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673201#Comment_123673201

Reminds me of a scene from Landman with Billy Bob Thornton

https://youtu.be/fmbZwxEnAFc

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673260#Comment_123673260

Nonsense, under the old crazy modding system most of my messages in this thread would have been deleted and I would have been banned from the thread.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672931#Comment_123672931

I guess I could look it up...

https://www.bumper.co/blog/hybrid-battery-replacement-cost

https://vitronix.ie/home/hybrid-battery/bmw-plug-in-hybrid/

Seems to come up quite often on BMW forums at low mileage.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673180#Comment_123673180

Flag of something alright.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058419032/thinking-of-moving-to-ev

Any problems the Volvo. Why not keep it. The older the car the less tech you'll have to learn.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673262#Comment_123673262

Not entirely sure why he expects technology to replace in 30yrs an oil industry that's taken 165yrs to get to what it is today. Guess that's Hollywood.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673285#Comment_123673285

Japanese hybrid batteries easily last 10+ years only cost a few hundred to replace.

electricus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673262#Comment_123673262

Fiction, but people probably believe that.

The input energy payback for wind and solar farms is less than a year. At end of life most of the parts, including the concrete foundations can be reused.

If oil was used to generate the electricity it would be burned without any possibility for reuse.

Going way off topic, I’ll stop

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673254#Comment_123673254

The natural reserves of Hydrogen discovered in France was actually at half the depth you'd expect to find oil. Only the tip of the iceberg probably in Natural Hydrogen.

The point I'm making about EV is that it's not environmentally friendly to pull 6 times the minerals vs ICE from the Earth no more than it is to pull oil to burn for ICE Fuel. Hydrogen ICE means no extra mining is needed, even though battery are more efficient, the more you can generate Hydrogen via green sources or natural the better and no need for more mining for batteries.

Flinty997

You need to mine more to store hydrogen and storing it (and transport) need more resources (mined) than any another fuel source. It's the Hindenburg of energy.

https://youtu.be/awN2w3sGj1w?si=i7udcLecqbp_6r56

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673284#Comment_123673284

So you’re admitting you’re posting shite and just trolling. Thanks for the honesty.

electricus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673365#Comment_123673365

Finding natural hydrogen reserves is just the first step; using them commercially will take time.

Burning hydrogen produced via electrolysis in engines is only about 14% efficient, meaning that just 14 out of every 100 units of electricity generated by solar panels or wind turbines would be converted into useful work. This increases demand for scarce materials, including precious metals like platinum and iridium, which are needed for clean energy generation, electrolysis, storage and transport of the H2, which is technically challenging.

In contrast, battery electric vehicles (EVs) are about 80% efficient from grid to wheel, and new battery types using abundant elements like sodium or aluminum are being developed and already available. Some, including LiFePO₄, don’t require cobalt or nickel.

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673071#Comment_123673071

I don't get your logic.

You see no hassle in stopping your ICE car to refuel as you are already out and about doing other things.

But when you are out and about doing other things in an EV the last thing you want to do is stop to refuel.??

There is pretty much nowhere in Ireland that's 600km away that doesn't take you past hundreds of chargers. You just look at the app, it tells you if they are working and if they are free. Unlike petrol pumps which is a shot on the dark.

Pull in, plug in, take a wee, and hit the road.

You are acting like this is still an issue. It's not.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673696#Comment_123673696

The solution is to buy a diesel (for range) then post about it in ICE forums not the EV forums.

And NOT in EVERY EV thread.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673201#Comment_123673201

That's a completely false equivalence. As it happens, I broadly agree with you that EV grants should be directed towards public transport and that we should be targeting fewer cars on the road, not different cars on the road. The most environmentally friendly car is the one you own today.

Having said all that, as vehicles are replaced, EVs are a far less harmful option than an equivalent ICE vehicles, for those who can make them work, which really means those who can get a home charger.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123674285#Comment_123674285

I agree with the first bit but no, it's mad to think anyone could argue that all the mining needed for EV is in anyway better for the environment. As it stands now, there is no environmentally friendly car or vehicle, there are less harmful than others. Just looking at local emissions and lower Co2 emissions over the lifecycle of the car is meaningless if half the earth is dug up and destroyed in the process, which is usually in poorer countries where people can't object to the destruction to their land which is often taken without their permission.

The Irish Government do not want a proper Public transport system because it's worth a lot more than giving it to private public transport companies which would cost a lot less anyway considering you pay a small fee for bus, train etc vs the 30-50 K cost of a car, tax on fuel, tax on maintenance, tax on insurance, motor tax etc, it would be a huge loss so the incentive to reduce gridlock is not there but I still stand by my argument that there should be much more encouragement to switch to single person transport rather than have 1300-2500 Kg Cars with one person not to mention the increased risks to pedestrians due to the sheer weight of cars now especially EV, at 50 Km/hr an EV will cause more damage than much lighter ICE hatch and in my opinion, the 50 Km/hr limit should not be 40 Km/hr as it is in many other European towns and villages.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673696#Comment_123673696

The logic is I can refuel anywhere in far less time with ICE, it's as simple as that, for those that want to hang around at charge points, God knows I did it myself for long enough, then that's fine , I've no issue with it and happy it works out for them but this isn't the reality that most ICE drivers want to face.

Plug in take a wee and hit the road, well , you either have a massive prostate issue ( taking it your a Man lol ) or some other issues but there's no EV that will charge enough in that space of time and the amount of high power chargers in Ireland, 350 Kw or more is tiny and not to mention there's no EV that could even take that amount of power for long enough.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673690#Comment_123673690

It's estimated by the USGS that even if 2% of the natural Hydrogen can be recovered it would be enough for around 200 years of global supply.

It's still very early days but we still have the means to generate Hydrogen via renewable energy and Nuclear and while burning Hydrogen in engines might be much less efficient than fuel cells it means no more minerals are needed for mining, it would be around the same as for ICE, once the fuel is generated via Nuclear we have an almost unlimited source of energy and if Microsoft had to beg borrow or steal to get Three Mile Island Nuclear reactor reactivated after the accident back in was it 1980 ? this shows how the world can change in it's attitudes to Nuclear, Bill Gates himself has invested in terrapower which if successful will be a huge change to the nuclear industry.

Instead of heating homes with Gas we could heat them with Nuclear energy via electricity which is unlikely given the enormously limited supply in Irish homes around 12 Kva, this can be upgraded of course and 3 phase is insanely expensive for domestic use, vs the norm in Germany for example.

We could generate Hydrogen and inject it into the gas supplies and use it for transport via ICE engines.

Why can't we electrify our rail network ? Too much emphasis on cars and making the taxpayer bear the brunt of the costs to lower emissions just to get to work. We're already paying a lot more for energy vs the big polluting countries……

We all know EV is a lot more efficient and while this is good for our bank accounts it does not solve the issues related to mining while Hydrogen ICE solves the extra mining it at the same time almost completely eliminates the issues with emissions with tiny levels of Nox and even tinier amounts of Co2 being burned due to heat burning up minuscule amounts of engine oil the difference vs battery production would see hydrogen ICE come out way less polluting in the end if the hydrogen is generated via clean sources.

LiFeP04 is a good way to effectively halve the amount of minerals needed but LiFeP04 batteries still need 3 times the amount of minerals vs ICE and normal BEV needs 6 times the amount of minerals.

Unfortunately LiFeP04 isn't as energy dense but if they could greatly increase power density they might be able to make charging a lot faster it could make up for the lack of energy density.

We could be doing a lot more but the emphasis appears to be mainly on making the private car buyer solely responsible for lowering emissions when the big corporations and Irish Rail for example could be doing a lot more. I laughed when I heard DART are getting Hybrid trains ffs, comical because of the amount of mining needed for train batteries, it's just mad, Electrify the bloody rail network ffs, we're a small Island.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673419#Comment_123673419

Absolutely not, the issue for you and others is that you can't have me banned and comments deleted like in the past that you don't approve of when your comments are challenged. This is what makes discussion and debate meaningful rather than have an echo chamber which is bad for those looking for sound information so they can make proper informed decisions.

This has changed only because previous boards funders legged it and Boards is on it's bollocks and the modding was a major factor in so many people abandoning the site.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673260#Comment_123673260

"Forums who didn't have robust rules did not survive."

Oh really, that hasn't worked out too well for boards.ie has it ? is that why the now owners of borads have their hat out begging for money after the big boys bailed ship ?

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673240#Comment_123673240

There's no large scale battery recycling, ICE parts can be recycles too the difference being EV need up to 6 times the amount of minerals to begin with and failure to see this as being an issue going forward to full scale EV is an issue.

I never said burning oil was better , what I've said is no point Solving one problem while creating another.

Edited spelling mistake.

electricus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123675964#Comment_123675964

In summary according to Mad_Lad, burning stuff is good and everything else is bad 🤷

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars

Cyrus

I presume all these folks that are so anti batteries aren't using laptops or mobile phones or taking their powder from the grid where we have large battery storage facilities.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123675981#Comment_123675981

Boards had rules and it's still here.

They just lifted the rules and it's dying.

Meanwhile you post a litany of posts and small novels which have nothing to do with EVs in an EV thread.

Ticking every box.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123676043#Comment_123676043

Apparently mining is only used for EV batteries.

Not ICE, not trains, not white goods, not food storage and production, not chemicals, not mobile phones and computers, not aircraft not ships, not heavy industry. Not hydrogen industry.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123675969#Comment_123675969

I’ve never once reported your posts so yet again, more lies from the lunatic.

MojoMaker

Just on this "refuelling anywhere" nonsense. On the way back from the Open last weekend I pulled into the Sprucefield shopping centre about 11pm to take a charge, I was also hoping to catch a bathroom but the only fuel station in the area closed at 9pm so I couldn't access any traditional ICE-based services. 9 mins at the SuC station and on my merry way to Dublin, with plenty of charge left for the next day's requirements. An absolutely perfect result, and in an area of the country not particularly well served by charge points historically.

Across the motorway network in the Republic there are high powered chargers located at every service station - ok not as many as there are diesel or petrol pumps, but the % EV ownership pulling in would be correspondingly smaller, so it balances out.

Oh but but what about off the motorway network I hear someone mention? Well, if you're off the fastest transport infrastructure in the country, are you making a long journey? Probably not.

And if you're not making a long journey, realistically you don't need a charger away from home unless you've a tiny battery.

Range anxiety / access to services / charging times - none really a challenge anymore, and in fact the needle tips further towards EVs when you consider the decline in opening hours of the rural ICE fuel station network, but where the installed chargepoints obviously operate 24/7.

@Mad_Lad your personal financial situation changed for the worse and you had to bail out of your EV, yet you insist on relabelling this as a choice and continue to blame it on challenges with EV ownership to mask this unfortunate retreat. Those of us here a while know the story, which is why your laboured attempts to continue the FUD for newcomers under the notion of "just trying to help" is disingenuous and is rightly called out every time it is witnessed.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123676215#Comment_123676215

Reporting hasn't worked properly for years anyway.

I can't see removing rules that weren't enforced is going to make much difference. You'd have to trigger a mod to get sanctioned.

Yet another thread utterly derailed.

mr chips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123676008#Comment_123676008

Let's just take a moment to think about this. A litre of diesel weighs between 0.82-0.85kg, while a litre of petrol is slightly lighter at around .75kg. Let's be generous and say that a diesel car averages 5.5L/100km, and a petrol car averages 7L/100km - this means that a diesel car would consume just 55 litres to travel 1000km (I know this is more than a bit optimistic!), and a petrol car would consume 70 litres to do the same.

Let's be even more generous and ignore all waste by-products, all spills, all evaporation etc that happen before the fuel goes into the car's tank. Let's also assume the average distance a car covers in a year is 15000km, and that a car's lifetime is 15 years. To fuel a diesel car would require 55*15*.085*15 = 10518.75kg of diesel over the car's lifetime, while fuelling a petrol car would require 70*15*.075*15 = 11812.5kg of petrol over the car's lifetime. That's for one car. That's on top of the materials used to build the car.

None of that tonnage gets recycled, or can ever be. Let's also ignore the platinum that's in every catalytic converter, or that none of the cobalt used in refining diesel can ever, ever be recycled.

So saying that EVs "need up to 6 times the amount of minerals to begin with" is misleading and partial. In other words, more b0llocks.

weadick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673299#Comment_123673299

After reading this thread I'd be inclined to agree with you. I just wouldn't mind driving a modern car for once and moving away from diesel. But no, it doesn't give trouble and is a rare car now. I'll probably hold on it another while at least.