Thinking of moving to EV

Dazler97

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123671015#Comment_123671015

surely hybrid cars would be worth it then

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123662613#Comment_123662613

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123662799#Comment_123662799

What's the point in Eddie Hobbs these days?

Total tax intake last year was about €107 billion. Motoring taxes are about €8 billion. That's closer to 1/12 than 1/8, so Hobbs is way off with his calculation.

Excise duties	€6.3 billion
Motor tax	~€1.1 billion (based on prior years)
VRT	~€0.5–0.6 billion
Carbon tax (on fuels)	~€0.5 billion
Total motoring-related	~€8.5 billion

It's a nonsense claim regardless. The theory that this is going to leave a huge gap in tax income to be filled ignores the huge costs of harm done by fossil fuels related to ICE motoring.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672375#Comment_123672375

Depends on your driving pattern.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123664229#Comment_123664229

It's weird to see the strange obsession with the harm of lithium mining from people who never gave a toss about the harm from extracting and using fossil fuels OR anything else that they ever used or bought.

But EVs? Oh, they're bad. Really bad. Apparently.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123670919#Comment_123670919

I could swear I saw @derekreilly posting about getting >900km range from a Skoda recently, though I can't find the post now. You're living off very old data.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672280#Comment_123672280

Gonna be hard to persuade people to pay subscriptions if boards allow certain people to saturate every other thread soapboxing their fud.

Dazler97

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672449#Comment_123672449

Maybe I am and I apologise for that .

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672066#Comment_123672066

That's the trade off. 5 to 10 mins a week pumping petrol is 5-10 hours a year pumping petrol.

Wasting 10 hours so you don't have to stop for 15mins on a long trip in an EV.

Classic false economy thinking.

Guffy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672346#Comment_123672346

Apologies, just double checked you are correct. It was a Leon. Will definitely give a born a spin this week too.

electricus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672375#Comment_123672375

Hybrids are a good alternative to diesel/ petrol for anyone considering an EV but unable to install a home charger or access affordable charging at work

I’ve owned two Toyota hybrids and found them to be extremely reliable and inexpensive to run. While they aren’t particularly exciting to drive, that wasn’t a priority for a family car.

Plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) often combine the drawbacks of both systems: either the engine or the battery becomes unnecessary weight, depending on how you’re driving (though engine still requires annual servicing, even if it’s rarely used). I know a couple of PHEV owners who go to great lengths to stay in electric mode—not easy with only about 50 km of real electric range. Both have since realised that a full electric vehicle would have worked better for their needs.

Flinty997

Disadvantage of hybrid is a small battery getting used constantly. It's a disadvantage as they often make it difficult (and disproportionately expensive) to replace.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672864#Comment_123672864

How often do you think you need to replace a hybrid battery? And how much do you think it costs?

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672280#Comment_123672280

Really, I could say the same about a lot of folk here.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672319#Comment_123672319

What id4 was it ? because the normal one won't screech tyres, it's too heavy and rear wheel driven.

I couldn't make the tyres screech in the id3, it was the heavier 82 Kwh. Even in the wet it had tonnes of grip.

I thought the id3 was quite roomy.

The id cars are nothing special, over priced in my opinion and the infotainment isn't the best.

Guffy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672951#Comment_123672951

No idea as to the spec. It was my first weekend looking at EVs and stopped into Roscommon on way back from another test as an after thought. I drove I think the breaks were shot in the car he gave me tbh. Prob wasn't a fair evaluation as I said the car itself was shot.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672296#Comment_123672296

@27K the MG4 is certainly a decent price even if it only has 49 Kwh @18 Kwh/100 that would mean 272 Kms to empty and probably as little as 220 kms faster driving and cold, wet etc.

I only see 49 Kwh on MG Ireland website but at 27 K it's a far more sane price but I'm not a fan of the interior, lacks proper climate controls. All the screens too not a fan but can't be worse than the ID cars.

Just a shame the charging isn't the best 10-80% in 49 mins ffs and that's probably only if the battery is at the right temp.

My old 24 Kwh Leaf cost around 28,500 with 21 usable Kwh back in 2015.

The Atto 3 ? 40-41K you get 60 Kwh, but is it worth so much more ? Don't like interior of atto 3 either.

The MG4 is a lot better priced to be honest if you can live with the range and charging or have the 2nd car at home. If I were to do it again, that's the price I'd be aiming at and I wouldn't pay the extra for the bigger battery to be honest because having a ice backup makes it a waste of money.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672840#Comment_123672840

Who cares about the weight when the PHEV can bring you anywhere you want to go while offering the potential to substantially reduce fuel consumption ? depending on battery size. I had to service the BMW i3 Rex, the intervals were 2 years regardless of mileage. It cost around 400 Euro from main dealer, big deal. The advantage was up to 220 Kms range, average for me was 150-170 Kms and then the petrol generator kicks in when you need it.

The issue is that many PHEV have small batteries and the engine is the main form of traction, The Rex EV motor was the only source of traction and the engine , a 600 cc Motorcycle engine was used to turn the generator, an amazing piece of engineering, so good and BMW realise now and they are bringing it back, sadly not the i3 but the Rex is coming back in the big suvs then it might filter down to the other cars.

The Rex offered 100% independence from any charging network but it also supported 50 Kw DC charging and 11 Kw 3 phase on AC, once the battery charge reached 70% you could turn on the Rex on the motorway for example and preserve charge for slower roads and in town, a marvellous piece of engineering.

So while yes, small battery PHEV owners will have to plug in a lot more, it will be a lot more work to try use as much battery as possible vs someone who has much longer range PHEV with option to fast charge or not and use 3 phase 11 Kw AC but having the advantage of not having to use public charging.

electricus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672429#Comment_123672429

Yep, someone I know who enjoys commenting on the environmental impact of EVs also likes to suck on disposable vapes - which, as I recently found out, contain lithium batteries.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672864#Comment_123672864

Not really, the MK II Prius using NiMh battery saw 4000,000 Miles and more, there were regular reports from USA taxis of such mileage, however, age is more of an issue than simply mileage but they still held out over many years without issue.

Due to battery patents of NiMh tech ( owned by Chevron Texaco ) which I think have now expired , of course as everyone moves to lithium, but the patents meant Toyota and others were not allowed to use more than 1 Kwh and only 500 Watt hrs of that was available in the prius to extend the life of the battery.

The issue is finding people to replace the battery if needed or replace modules etc, same with EV.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672584#Comment_123672584

It's no trade off really because I can fill up anywhere in a much shorter time and get nearly 3 times the range vs EV, I just pull up anywhere in any town, although , many petrol pumps have disappeared in rural areas like the pub, it still means I can fill up just about anywhere on way to supermarket, work etc.

15 mins stop for EV is a bit optimistic, of course you will find the cases where a 15 min stop is just right however, with ICE no one really has to care about it or do extra planning or hope when they get to the petrol pump it's working or there's no queue because mostly, there are no queues.

JohnySwan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673052#Comment_123673052

WTF has all this got to do with the OP?

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672451#Comment_123672451

Comical that, those who could hit report and get others banned and comments deleted now actually have to read comments they don't like, that's the way it should be.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673075#Comment_123673075

this is mad lad basically

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673093#Comment_123673093

Funny, I could say the same about a lot of people here.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123672414#Comment_123672414

Vs the harm done for mining minerals for EV, using Child labour, forcing people off their land , demolishing forest, ignoring local opposition just so People in the West can Virtue signal. Even if EV find sustainable green sources of Lithium, Lithium accounts for only 1.5-2% of the actual battery vs the amount of other minerals needed + chemicals.

No one denies the impact of the oil industry but the fact is that the world depends heavily on it and there's no sense in solving one environmental issue and creating another. Without big Oil the world as we know it ceases to exist.

As I said, the discovery of natural Hydrogen in France which scientists claim is renewable and estimated to be replicated all over the planet , that would be a game changer and we wouldn't need to dig up half the planet for batteries along with the fact we can generate Hydrogen from unlimited sources such as Nuclear, wind and solar.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673118#Comment_123673118

Proves my point that the supposed environmental concerns are just a flag of convenience.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673180#Comment_123673180

Feeding people, clothing them, Medical instruments etc and everything we need today isn't convenience, it's essential, most of the stuff we need and don't need but still buy buy is produced from Oil in some way or another then shipped half way around the world in Ships powered by oil. We will need Oil for many decades to come and probably far beyond.

Here in Ireland, we should be far more concerned about reducing the amount of cars on our roads not increasing. Grants for EV should go towards funding proper public transport.

If they're building new estates, build proper public transport, trams, rail etc. More cars are not the answer.

mr chips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673118#Comment_123673118

When EV batteries eventually reach the end of their usable life, the lithium, cobalt and other materials can still be recovered and reused. Depending on the structure and composition of the battery, this can be done with a greater or lesser degree of difficulty, but it is possible. How much diesel, petrol or gas can be recycled once it has been burned? Is it a figure greater or lesser than 1%?

Do you understand that crude oil extraction is also a form of mining? Do you understand that it also often takes place in the face of local opposition, and that routine leaks and spills have ruined lives for many decades, including of children? Or is it only the children involved in lithium mining you care about? Have you ever advocated for the welfare of children affected by oil extraction, or is this a newfound prick of your conscience?

I've been aware of the damage caused by the extraction and use of fossil fuels for decades. I became engaged in trying to push back against it in my own way going back some 25 years, by giving up my time to volunteer in a project turning waste cooking oil into biodiesel and using that rather than mineral diesel in my various vehicles for close to half a million miles. It wasn't a perfect solution, but it was still better than the status quo/default option, and I did it for nearly 10 years. Is that something you would dismiss as virtue-signalling? Is anything that people do to try and make positive change just virtue-signalling in your eyes? I'm just trying to get a read on the depth of cynicism here.

Have you ever heard the phrase "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good?" If your concern is for the welfare of children, forcing people off their land and the harm done by mining, do you understand that the electrification of personal transport serves to mitigate and reduce these issues, rather than exacerbate them? Because if you don't, you should probably stop citing this as a reason to oppose the transition to EVs.

electricus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673118#Comment_123673118

Many minerals and chemicals, including lithium, have a wide range of uses beyond electric vehicle (EV) production. For example, nickel is essential in the manufacture of stainless steel, various alloys, and anti-corrosion coatings. Cobalt serves as a key catalyst in refining fossil fuels and is also used in the production of steel and other alloys. The point is that nearly all manufactured goods require raw materials sourced from the earth, and extraction will continue regardless of whether the demand comes from EVs, e-cigarettes, laptops, etc.

Natural hydrogen is an interesting energy source, but most known deposits are located much deeper underground than typical oil and gas reserves. This makes extraction more challenging and could require digging up more of the planet compared to oil or lithium extraction, but maybe that will be worthwhile.

Using electricity to produce hydrogen (via electrolysis) makes sense for applications where batteries are impractical, such as heavy-duty transport, shipping, or certain industrial processes. However, using hydrogen for residential heating or to power buses and cars is wasteful. Producing hydrogen from electricity typically results in energy losses of more than 50% so only about half of the original electrical energy is retained as usable hydrogen. Batteries are much more efficient (around 90% of electricity) and a better choice for passenger vehicles. Heat pumps are powered directly by electricity are always going to more efficent that burning H2 for space or water heating.

Best case, oil won't last forever; worst case we will use it to destroy our environment before it runs out. If that isn't an incentive to find alternatives I don't know…

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123673092#Comment_123673092

If people got banned and comments deleted it was because they broke the rules. Not because they got reported. If it happens to them enough to annoy them, they must be posting some amount of drivel.

People don't have to read anything. They can also put people on ignore, so they have don't read the same thing over and over again.

Forums who didn't have robust rules did not survive.