Hamas strike on Israel

The response to the Gaza genocide by the EU and US has eroded the reputation of the west and undermined any claim to moral authority in international relations. The effects will be felt for years to come.
In 2011 western leaders used false claims of mass civilian deaths and mass rapes to intervene in Libya with UN Security Council resolution 1970, imposing a no fly zone and arms embargo to prevent civilians being killed.
Western countries then broke the arms embargo by air dropping weapons to anti Gadaffi fighters.

The Gaza genocide has forced people to realise that western democracies don’t act legally or morally. They act in their own interest.

Meanwhile, the killings continue.

It's PR.

They'll let in a trickle more aid, they'll air drop some more.

In certain areas they'll suspend combat. However we've seen before that suspending combat just means that they'll stop shooting guns as much but will still drop bombs.

At the same time they'll bring in more and more bulldozers to level more neighbourhoods. Meanwhile the starvation will get worse, more people will die and they'll blame Hamas.

Mostly on Twitter. The comments on the starvation of civilians are shocking - claims the whole thing is a hoax by Gazans but even worse comments about mothers taking the food and allowing their children to die. The levels of dehumanisation are something I've never on social media before - these individuals are evil and (it does explain how the genocide has happened though, the regime and its supporters are sick).

It's far too late. Reports from Gaza are that people are suffering from stage 4 malnutrition. There is no stage 5.

You can't just give them food at this stage and hope they'll recover. For some its too late, their bodies are consuming themselves and its arguably one of the worst ways to die. It's slow, painful and your loved ones can see you die before their eyes.

That an Irish person could possibly support this is beyond me given our history. While the British might not list the romantically termed "Gorta Mór" as one of their genocides, it absolutely was. It was a systematic, man-made famine. What's more but the trauma from that remains, not just in our national psyche but physically, a condition borne from that lingers in our family 5 generations later.

As an Irish person, may the people who've allowed this to protect themselves never be forgiven.

I can't see the Israelis allowing a Palestinian state free from interference. The other issue is the physical separation of Gaza to the rest of the Palestinian Territories. I can't see Israelis allowing free movement between the two parts.

The other issue is Zionism which underpins the mindset of Israeli thinking. It doesn't want a fully functioning successful Palestinian state.

...and maybe you are right.

But an Israeli could say the same thing - Palestinians don't want an Israeli state and will never leave it free from interference (rockets, bomb attacks etc).

If your answer is to go down the path of ethnic cleansing and mass removal of those you disagree with, you automatically give warranty to the other side trying to do the same. The moderate people in the middle melt away and you end up with extremists in power and awful situations like this where a seemingly democratic society either supports or couldn't care less if it's neighbors are wiped out by those it voted into power.

I understand the anger and hatred towards Israel, what they are doing is disgusting, and anybody complicit in it should be hauled in front of the courts and tried, those soldiers who carried out war crimes against civilians should be hunted as the Nazis were (as should the Hamas lads who did the same on Oct 7th).

But if Germany could turn itself around from the abhorrence and hellish collapse of morality that occured during Nazism and work with it's neighbors (and they with them) with respect and to mutual benefit, so can Israel and the Palestinians. I don't buy all this Jihadi and Ultra Zionist stuff as being an inherent and unchangeable facet of Palestinian or Israeli genetics - they are humans, prone to the worst of us and the most moderate of us and all in between.

For all its faults, the EU is probably the greatest project in human history for building peace between countries whose countless wars and hatred resulted in the darkest hours of human history - taken for granted as it is now. If the peace we have in Europe is possible, there is hope anywhere, but it will never happen without steadfast belief and an iron will to make it so.

This is why I feel strongly that Israel needs to cease to exist as a nation.

You keep repeating this but, frankly, it's just as ludicrous and inflammatory as saying that Palestine should cease to exist in pursuit of an Israeli one state solution.

There can be no one state solution to this issue without it descending into absolute chaos, if not a full on civil war that will inevitably drag in the surrounding nations and, more than likely, the US. That's not something that anyone should be vying for.

I agree that the heads of state in Israel are some of the most despicable people to have ever smeared the planet, and the sooner they are off of it the better. But they are not Israel and they are not all Israelis either. They will also not be in power forever and when they're gone, hopefully they will be replaced by better people.

But what you are calling for won't help anyone in the region in any way. The only way forward is to push for a two state solution whereby either people can live in peace and under their own self determination.

Also, Israel isn't going anywhere so, automatically, this fantasy of it ceasing to exist becomes immediately redundant. The only realistic way for is for two states to exist. How this is going to come about remains to be seen.

next will be their other neighbours, i likely mentioned this way back in the thread.

lebanon, egypt, syria, jordan and more need to be warey and be prepared.

as it is israel is still causing trouble in lebanon and syria.

the west is invested in israel certainly, but i wouldn't bank on that not changing as western publics start to question more what exactly they are invested in and getting back in return and start leaning more on the political class who are keeping the show on the road.
now i think we are a good way off this possibility granted, but the world is changing and the old order and way of doing things is slowly changing with it.

It’s not Jews launching terror attacks in Europe. It’s wasn’t a Jew cutting gay men’s heads off in Sligo or stabbing kids on Parnell street or any number of other attacks. People are anti Jew in this thread because of a conflict a continent away, talking about it instead of the more pressing conflict for us in Ukraine.

You're again conflating anti genocide as being anti-jewish people, they are not one in the same.

If you're that single minded it's no wonder you're afraid of all muslims, when there are hundred of millions of people who are muslim who are fantastic people. There's extremists in every walk of life, stop tarnishing everyone with the same single minded brush.

... And it's not the Jews starving people in Gaza, or bombing children, or committing genocide. It is the Israeli military and government. Many of them happen to be Jewish, fair enough, lots of Nazis were Catholic, as were those involved in the genocide in Rwanda, does opposition to this make us anti Catholic?

You are the one equating opposition to the genocide of Gazans as being against Jews, which is you saying it is representative of Jews, which means all Jews are somehow complicit in it - not even all Israelis are complicit in it.

You are doing enormous damage to those you claim you are trying to protect, which makes me think you couldn't care less what effect your words have on Jewish people once this conflict is over.

Tbh it just comes across like you hate Muslims and you want us all to look the other way while they get butchered.