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Infrastructure that never happened

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,734 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    They hadn't even got a design as far as I know, let alone approval, funding etc etc. Presumably it was going to do that yeah.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Yep, very poor journalism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,440 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If they really wanted to they could still bring a line in to broadstone for that 2km stretch along the luas line by cut and fill but going by what happened with the metro and the luas on the south side they would never be aloud to close the broombridge line even in sections for construction



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    That was a stunt by Irish Rail to block the Luas to Broombridge



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,559 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Broadstone doesn't really make sense as a destination for rail passengers, it is largely a residential area. Docklands/Spencer Dock is a far more attractive destination for the majority of commuters these days.

    Tunnelling from Broadstone over to the Southern DART line wouldn't make much sense these days given the capacity constraints on the Southern line. Split the DART, so every second train from Bray/Greystones goes in the tunnel versus Connelly. So just a train every 20 minutes using the tunnel, kind of the opposite of how you'd want to use an expensive tunnel.

    It kind of reflects old fashioned thinking of Stephens Green being the heart of the business district and while it is obviously still an important destination, the docklands luckily has become the heart of our business district now.

    DART Underground still makes sense, but this tunnel connection wouldn't make sense today. Had they tunnelled to the Harcourt Street line, that would be a different conversation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 528 ✭✭✭dublincc2


    Foxdene Stadium in Clondalkin, proposed by Owen O’Callaghan, was meant to have a capacity of 40,000 and be the Dublin home of Wimbledon FC back in 1997. This predates the Eircom Park and Bertie Bowl.

    Obviously was never built, and almost 30 years on the site is still undeveloped fields.

    IMG_2890.jpeg IMG_2890.jpeg


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    If it’s the fields I’m thinking of, it’s soon to be Kishogue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,751 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Is that where all the burnt out cars do be? Sort of a "welcome to Dublin culchie, turn around asap" sign



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    No idea how that went from “ the stadium will commence by the end of the year no matter what” to radio silence. The developer seemed so gung ho, something must’ve gone seriously wrong with the financing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    You can’t just move a football club to another country at the drop of a hat.

    There was naturally enough huge opposition to the plan.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Oh, this is starting to get interesting, look what I found! This is the Wikipedia page on the Mahon Tribunal.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahon_Tribunal

    In 1993, the Taoiseach Albert Reynolds and Bertie Ahern, who was then Minister for Finance, wrote to developer Owen O'Callaghan seeking a substantial donation. At the time O'Callaghan was heavily involved in lobbying for state support for a stadium project at Neilstown, County Dublin. According to the report, O'Callaghan felt compelled to donate a sum of IR£80,000 to Fianna Fáil in order to get funding for the stadium. The Mahon Tribunal said it did not find the payment to be corrupt. However, the report said pressurising a businessman to donate money when he was seeking support for a commercial project was "entirely inappropriate, and was an abuse of political power and government authority".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,860 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    IIRC Wimbledon needed permission from the Premier League, the FA, the FAI and UEFA. They all said no.

    There was uproar when they eventually moved 50 miles up the road to Milton Keynes, moving to Dublin was never going to fly.

    Put your money where yer mouth is... Subscribe and Save Boards!

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,825 ✭✭✭✭lawred2




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 528 ✭✭✭dublincc2


    What was the Jacob’s masterplan mentioned by @L1011? The place only closed in 08 I think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,734 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Once it was known they were closing, SDCC knocked together a proposal to re-use the site for mostly mixed office/light industrial development - including extending the Broomhill Road to the Belgard Road right through the middle.

    The timing was wrong - there was the empty retail park built on the old Packard site (now Harvey Norman's flagship store), the Gallagher/Benson & Hedges factory opposite and the IBM building on the corner of Airton/Broomhill already empty; and Uniphar and Cable & Wireless closed in the coming years - so there was way too many other sites to be used.

    Amazon only bought the site in 2015, so it lay idle a long time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 528 ✭✭✭dublincc2


    I can’t find any documents on this, I looked through the SDCC development plans in the relevant period and found nothing relating to the site itself, although there were some proposals for the surrounding Airton/Belgard estate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,734 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    It was a supplementary proposal to the development plans; and nearly 20 years of bitrot means you'll likely never find the proposal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 528 ✭✭✭dublincc2


    So just to confirm the land reservation would’ve been where exactly? The yellow line? Looks like they would’ve had to do a fair bit of demolition to have a straight road.

    IMG_3137.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,734 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The proposal would have seen the entire Jacobs factory site was to be knocked and redeveloped, so the road was the least of the concerns for demolition.

    And I'm fairly certain it used the path of the existing stub road off the Broomhill Road, as it would otherwise have become quite pointless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 528 ✭✭✭dublincc2


    The 1973 Dublin Transport Study proposal came up with two main options for the Greater Dublin highway network as envisaged by 1991. The ‘b’ plan was similar to what we eventually got, with ‘a’ being quite a strange proposal which did away with the C-ring that would become the M50:

    IMG_0850.jpeg IMG_0833.jpeg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭plodder


    Both options on that "highway" network show a motorway heading straight for the north inner city, then following the route of the fabled (and more recent) Eastern bypass. Might even have been the kind of elevated structure that many north American cities are discovering weren't a great idea as it's hard to imagine they were contemplating tunnels back then. We may have dodged a bullet there.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    There’s more detail about these, plus some map reconstructions of the Grand Canal Motorway from the 1971 plan (see page 2) on this site: https://randall.ie/unfinished-dublin - the 1973 plan looks like a refinement of the 1971 version.

    The historical context of this report is worth noting. This study was published in 1973, just at the moment when Europe was turning against urban motorways. The Dublin plan has three concentric highway routes: the outer motorway, the canals, and a central box with corners at Smithfield, Connolly, Stephen’s Green and the Liberties (a descendant of the infamous “Tangent” from the 1960s). This pattern is clearly influenced by the London Ringways plan ( London Ringways - Wikipedia ) which had an inner urban box surrounded by orbitals.

    The problem with the Ringways was that central box: it required construction of elevated highways that overshadowed the residential streets and made the city a horrible place for people to actually live. Once those elevated roads started going up, the public revolted, with mass campaigns against the plan. The Labour party gained control of the Greater London Council in 1973 by campaigning on a single issue: stop the construction of the London Ringways, a promise they followed up on.

    The experience of London killed any plan for a motorway inside Dublin city, even if we’d had the funds.



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