Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Metrolink - Alternative Routes - See post one for restrictions.

1234568»

Comments

  • #212
    Brightlights66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 120 ✭✭Brightlights66


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123580828#Comment_123580828

    What is the 'BC file'? And where is 'here', i.e. where is it posted?

    After much thought, I am currently thinking that 'BC' may be 'business case', but you know that that is not what I seek: an up to date map of workplaces in Dublin.

    In the modern day you would think that such a comprehensive map would exist and be publicly available and easily accessible.

    Any such map, post-COVID, would - you would hope - give some indication of the workers who are actually in the workplace on any given day: Microsoft (for example) in Leopardstown may employ, say, (just off the top of my head) 3,000 people, but the numbers travelling into the office, and out of it, on any day, may now be just 2,000. Prior to COVID it was 3,000 both ways, every day.

    On an older workplace map of Dublin which I saw, around 2006 - produced by the University of Maynooth and linked to, for boards.ie readers, by the excellent poster Monument, the concept of WFH had not even been dreamt of.



  • #213
    Brightlights66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 120 ✭✭Brightlights66


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123581883#Comment_123581883

    "…the second rail connection" to the airport?

    Even for this thread, we now seem to be entering wholly uncharted levels of fantasy.



  • #214
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123583513#Comment_123583513

    Well, a second rail connection could be an extension of the Luas via Fingals. Or it could be a second Metro from Dublin SW. Or even a Dart or IC extension of some sort. Who knows.

    Before we have a second rail connection, there must be a first. Let us hope that happens soon.



  • #215
    spillit67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭spillit67


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123583417#Comment_123583417

    The Bus Connects demand file repeatedly mentioned on this thread.



  • #216
    Brightlights66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 120 ✭✭Brightlights66


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123585981#Comment_123585981

    Thanks.

    But those busconnects give an overall picture. The one we had in the past gave workplace figures for each individual ward, and allowed you to zoom in to specific places to get detailed figures of both numbers of workers and numbers of residents in each area. Such a map must still exist - Jarrett Walker and his team didn't come up with those figures by themselves.



  • Advertisement
  • #217
    Brightlights66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 120 ✭✭Brightlights66


    Those numbers are important. As I've mentioned, I don't live in Dublin, but my (very limited) experience of the Green Line south of the canal shows me that it can readily handle the demand for those heading south (to Sandyford/Cherrywood) in the morning peak and heading north (from Sandyford/Cherrywood) in the evening peak, and should be able to do so for many years to come. When/if the time comes that there are excessive numbers making such journeys, there is still plenty of scope to increase tram throughput, link it up with other tram lines which may have been developed in the interim, etc.

    The focus, I believe, should thus be on improving journeys into the city in the morning, and out of the city in the evening, with improved journeys to/from important workplaces like Sandyford, Cherrywood and Tallaght being obvious beneficiaries of that approach. Closing the Green Line for, say, a year - which is the obvious next step beyond building the metrolink to Charlemont - would achieve nothing beyond a new name.

    The residential numbers in the southwest suburbs are mostly much higher than they are along the Green Line south of the canal (as shown above, thanks to the readily accessible figures on census.ie). 4,000's and 3,000's (per sq.km) are the norm in the southwest, versus mostly 2,000's and 3,000's along the Green Line.

    I think the metrolink is broadly a wonderful plan, which will radically change many lives for the better. But it baffles me why Ireland would be, as part of this fine project, aiming to replace an existing line which is functioning well, and with tweaking could be functioning very well, instead of pressing on with providing very improved public transport to other large chunks of the city. The phrase I used above was 'that the authorities are trying to get several kilometres of metro on the cheap'. It still looks that way.



  • #218
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123586224#Comment_123586224

    but my (very limited) experience of the Green Line south of the canal shows me that it can readily handle the demand for those heading south (to Sandyford/Cherrywood) in the morning peak and heading north (from Sandyford/Cherrywood) in the evening peak, and should be able to do so for many years to come

    Well duh?

    The phrase I used above was 'that the authorities are trying to get several kilometres of metro on the cheap'. It still looks that way.

    That is literally the plan yes. And that is a good thing.



  • #219
    roadmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,392 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    In the latest wishlist for Luas lines it shows a route close to following the route of Metro West. Why can the state not just built Metro West as planned back in the day. Most of the route is still there and the demand is there.



  • #220
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,493 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123648281#Comment_123648281

    I haven't looked too closely, but I assume the Luas orbital route uses the original proposed Metro West route.

    If you mean why Luas rather then Metro, really for a route like this, there is basically very little difference between Luas/LRT and light Metro.

    With the route being mostly above ground, I'm not sure how really segregated it is and thus if it could operate fully automated Metrolink style trains and it certainly wouldn't have the demand levels for 90 second frequency.

    A 56m Luas isn't going to be that much less capacity then a 64m Metro if they are both running the same frequency.

    Using Luas/LRT seems to have become the norm for such orbital routes in Europe. For example Copenhagen is just about to open in the next month or two an orbital tram line almost exactly like this proposed line. Paris use trams for it's Orbital routes.

    I suppose the real question is what level of segregation do you want, there are pros and cons between Metro and Luas.



  • #221
    Hasbaralies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 ✭Hasbaralies


    The chances of tis being built are getting higher but it certainly looking like at least 2032, especially with things like the PFAS contamination at the airport. It will be a fantastic thing



  • Advertisement
  • #222
    roadmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,392 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123648610#Comment_123648610

    The bigger issue i think is if developments like the attached get the go ahead along the route will there be enoght capacity on a Luas System.

    https://btcsitealrd.ie/



  • #223
    OisinCooke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭OisinCooke


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123648281#Comment_123648281

    I think it will be very similar to a Metro in all fairness, the most recent report on the Luas wish list from TII and Luas shows that the line will have nearly full segregation. Of the 25km between Tallaght and Tyrellstown, there will be 21.79km of off-road segregated line, with 2.77km of on-road segregated running and only 0.44km of on-road shared running, suggesting that the resultant service, while a Luas-type offering, will be efficient and similar to the Green Line in its ‘lite metro’ style of operation.

    I do think they should still, like the Metro West plans, envisage it to continue east to link with Metrolink at Dardistown, and even through Darndale and Donaghmede to Clongriffin DART station, maybe not immediately but as a future extension I’m sure it would do well.



  • #224
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,365 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    If the metro is built eventually there is going to be choices to be made on new metro line branches as opposed to buses and Luas. They are planning inherently constrained Luas lines to the likes of Lucan when there is an argument they should be planning now for other metro lines.

    You could have new metro lines under construction long before the first line opened.



  • #225
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,493 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123650908#Comment_123650908

    The concept is pretty straight forward, for the cost of one (extra) Metro line, you could afford about 5 or 6 Luas lines. Which obviously gives far greater coverage of the whole city then one extra Metro line would.

    To be honest, I can’t really think of any alignment for a second line that would come even close to the Metrolink line in demand levels or passing a CBA. Maybe an East - West line, but that would overlap with Dart Underground.

    Lucan certainly doesn’t need a Metro given it will be getting a DART+ line!



  • #226
    Consonata
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭Consonata


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123653172#Comment_123653172

    I think a Metro Grade "Metro West" with metrolink rolling stock linking at Darlaston would be fairly transformative. It would open a huge swathe of land for development and would also link communities which couldn't justify radial routes in their own right to existing radial corridors.

    Post Dart+ there will be a huge amount of potential capacity which could be fed by an orbital line to be honest. I don't think rathfarnham will ever justify a radial route in its own right but could benefit from an orbital elevated route



  • #227
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,493 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123653537#Comment_123653537

    I mentioned this over on another thread. It seems the TII are suggesting using Luas/LRT rolling stock for the “Metro West” alignment rather then “Metrolink” rolling stock.

    While I’ve no doubt this will be a popular alignment, I really don’t see the level of demand to justify Metrolink rolling stock operating every 90 seconds or anything even close to that!

    Using LRT has become the norm for such orbital routes around Europe. Copenhagen is just about to open an orbital route that looks almost exactly the same as “Metro West”, it is about the same distance from the city, etc. and they are using Luas like trams for it. Paris also uses Luas like trams for their orbital routes.

    I’m totally open to the idea of it being a “Metro”, but I’d love to see a detailed study into the alignment, what is the expected demand level, more or less then the Green line? What is the cost difference of using Luas on the alignment versus Metro?

    BTW there is an interesting question here about the operating cost of driver operated Luas versus driverless Metro (but higher capital cost).



  • #228
    Consonata
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭Consonata


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123653802#Comment_123653802

    If its 92% segregated, I have to imagine the cost upift to move to driverless is "trivial" in the grand scheme of things, building rail with significant headroom should be a better norm to attain rather than just building to demand. Sure it may not warrant 90sec headways today but it's nice to have the option, especially if it only costs a bn or two more in 2026 €s



  • #229
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,917 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    The last time that they looked at Metro West, they came to the conclusion that demand could be catered for with a segregated bus system. If they're now talking about Luas, then it's an upgrade. Perhaps by the time that they actually get around to building it, it'll be Metro….



  • #230
    citizen6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 109 ✭✭citizen6


    How expensive will it be to bridge the Liffey for a Metro West Luas? I would think the radial Luases will be cheaper.



Advertisement