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Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,807 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    2.

    3 total built in cooperation with Turkey. 1 for each Navy initially. But they don't have a design. Barely a concept of a design.

    Turkey just want to prevail in a dick swinging contest by building a longer ship than the QEs or the Charles de Gaulle. Which is an irresponsible, Putinesque reason to do anything.

    And Spain just want to be involved in the conversation, so that when they meet the US at NATO summits, they can say they are tackling their defence commitments regardless of the 5% target of the alliance, even if that is complete nonsense.

    I would feel fairly safe betting the remainder of my mortgage that no such ship will enter operation until at least 2045, if ever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    With long range drones and hypersonic missiles I'd say the day of the Aircraft carrier as a game changing weapon in a war of peers is ending. Like the battleship in the 1940s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Don't forget Italy is also thinking about getting into the Carrier game, even thinking about going nuclear, but not French nuclear of course



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Honestly I would go with "too soon to tell", don't think even the Chinese have yet demonstrated they have a detection and kill chain that can work. That being said given the shitshow that is USN procurement, they can't afford even damage to their fleet without some serious issues, and despite the ego of Trump, nothing he's suggesting in the budget will "unfuck" the problems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    I reckon that drone carrier is just the ticket for the navy. Now that everybody else is goin aircraft carrier mad… we should get in on the act as well

    Suggest a small mod or two to the design. Include a hangar for a couple of light attack helicopters and a VLS set up to deter Jonny Russian.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    Fair enough but we will need a fleet to protect the drone carrier



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    https://share.google/SBIcoBihUSAWL6daP



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,758 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Jonny Iranian…Bad Egg! Jonny Portugeser…Damned fine fellow!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,758 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,758 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Maybe the UK will pick up up....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    It's a dog.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,758 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,807 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Some very kind person has helpfully labelled the Kuznetsov for ease of location on Google Maps

    1000037233.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,766 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The B21 bomber is the best weapon system on the planet, it can replace intel gathering assets, do the job of fighters and bombers. It's like a swiss army knife of capabilities, especially if you include the Loyal wingman to the equation. I believe it's rendered navies near redundant and obsolete other than those needed to land troops and invade other places.

    Australia's insane AUKUS nuclear submarine imbroglio is projected to cost $368 Billion. With cost inflation the B21 might end up at $1b each. 60 of them would likely be overkill but could deliver performance many, many multiples of the subs, at 16% of the cost.

    Ukraine has shown navies are over rated. It was shown in the Falklands, too, except everyone seems to have had their fingers stuck in their ears going 'na,na,na' loudly ever since.

    It's a pity Ireland didn't stick it's hand up and buy some of Australia's F-18s just two years ago. What an opportunity missed. Cheap as chips, could have afforded to upgrade the radars to super hornet specs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭sparky42


    The B21 is still in development with no idea of final capabilities, or price, touting it as the magic solution is insane, even assuming the US is finally willing to allow other nations to buy it, or that other nations are willing to take on the burden of strategic bombers.

    As for naval investment, neither Ukraine or the Falklands prove much of anything, and have nothing to do with the investment of the AUKUS program.

    The Australian hornets were well worn by retirement and using them for the AC would have been a nightmare, assuming we won a bidding war with Canada.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,758 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The SR-71, U2 and F117 all demonstrate that everything becomes vulnerable at some point.

    Look at Ukraine and tethered guidance of drones using fibre optic cable. Wasn't a thing at the start of the war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,766 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    They might have been worn, but a US aggressor company inspected them and wanted to buy the lot, but couldn't raise the finance. They were good enough to pound the sh​it out of ISIS in northern Syria quite recently. The 45 offered to Ukraine were what was left after Canada had bought all they wanted, there would have not been a bidding war. The lead time for ordering new fighter jets is very long. Ireland should have a bird-in-the-hand mindset, not be happy to wait another decade or two for Peter Perfect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,766 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    SR-71 was vulnerable was it?

    I don't recall any ever being shot down; plenty were shot at. The most telling incident was one where the throttles were pushed to their stops and the plane was still accelerating like a train for sometime after the Mach metre had hit it's stop, when desperately accelerating away some SAMs that had been fired. No one knows how fast that one went, the mach meter topped out at 3.5, but it must have easily been Mach 4+.

    B2 and F-35s are yet to be proven vulnerable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭sparky42


    You know what else takes a long time, building the infrastructure and people to actually be able to support and use fighter aircraft. The AC doesn't have hundreds of people sitting around doing nothing because we don't have fighters, we don't have all the skillsets and equipment standing by but switched off until the first aircraft arrives. The availability and status of the Australian Hornets, or any other second hand purchases is irrelevant to Ireland at this time.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭sparky42


    B2's are babied, while the F35 is a hanger queen with its B variant being particularly shocking, but also both utterly besides anything to do with Ireland and any military purchases.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,758 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    "...Pilots did report that missiles launched without radar guidance and no launch detection, had passed as close as 150 yards (140 m) from the aircraft...CIA A-12 did take a piece of shrapnel from an SA-2 missile that exploded 100 meters away. ..."

    It's time was over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,758 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The vast majority of this thread is irrelevant to Ireland. 7yrs and nothing to replace the PC9. Nothing on the horizon or bvr either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭sparky42


    The PC9's are only notionally planned for replacement from this year, not seven years ago. However I would say arguing the value of 2 stealth strategic bombers is far beyond irrelevant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,758 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I meant if there was an overflight today the only deterrent Ireland has on paper is PC9 same as 7yrs ago when this thread started.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,758 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The Ukraine war has only made any procurement harder. But at the same time opened up a lot funding for military spending. What opportunities that creates for Ireland is hard to predict, as other countries upgrade.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    A story that has been doing the rounds since before the Paris Air Show and which is being bandied about again now that RIAT pressers are underway.

    Eurofighter Gmbh see a potential 150+ orders from combo of Turkey, Saudi Arabia & Qatar. The current max production rate is AFAIK 20 per year, with a ramp to 30 attainable. If those orders crystallise? It narrows down the Irish options even further if delivery before 2030 is wanted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,807 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I don't think anyone can think about military production in Europe in 2010 terms anymore.

    With all that has happened, a number of previously inconceivable steps may have to be taken over the medium term.

    Orders from outside the EU and NATO European states may have to be blocked, if they would delay deliveries to the European effort, unless local production can be established in a way that would not detract from European demand.

    When it comes to planes in particular, 50% increases will not be enough. It will have to be 500%. Realistically, the Eurofighter, Dassault and Saab production lines will need to be making 100 each of the frontline jet models, every year for the next 15 years. With commensurate increases in basic trainers, LIFTs, tankers, lifters, and everything else.

    And with a similar step-change needed for ships and armour, as well as armaments, digital technology, field equipment etc, it could be that civilian production of aircraft, vessels and industrial plant and machinery, as well as cars and white goods, need to be sacrificed to get the volumes up.

    Mark Rutte and other leading NATO figures and members have been talking about a 'war footing'. I'm afraid all of the above is what a war footing looks like. Not paltry and tokenistic increases.

    1000037282.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,766 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    That argument applies to any acquisition of fighters by Ireland. The deal the US aggressor squadron company struck, was to include all the specialist maintenance equipment and the entire inventory of spare parts. A package deal for a 2 squadron air force, just add personnel and training.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Well I've been reading that Eurofighter Typhoon UK factory is at a virtual standstill pending hoped for orders. Might not be a bad choice for AC given our neighbouring country can be a ready source for spares/ service/ training etc and a common language....



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