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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 404 ✭✭darkened_scrum


    Baird took 11 of our own lineouts and stole 3 Georgia lineouts. Not really sure I've seen someone take 14 lineouts in a game before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭All_in_Flynn


    I'd say he's only an injury away from a Lions call up. His last 3 performances between Leinster and Ireland have been very encouraging. You'd hope it has finally clicked for him in his head as has all the physical tools to be an elite forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 ConnemaraExile


    Does anyone know what the craic is with Caspar Gabriel and when he's Irish eligible? Also, for anyone who has watched him, how good is he?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,920 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    Not sure on the eligibility, thought he'd be clear for the u20s but seemingly not.

    I've seen him a few times and he's impressive. Totally different to the other outhalves we have, very physical and loves to carry to the line. Probably takes a bit to much on himself. Decent boot and good defender.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    No one is fully clear on Gabriel's eligibility because a) he was a student and b) he went home to Austria during Covid for a period. He's definitely not eligible yet, worst case scenario is that he would still be 4 years away but I believe the IRFU are working on it behind the scenes. Had hoped to have him for the JWC, but obviously that hasn't happened.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,434 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I'd imagine Farrell would love to have him at the moment. Think he's playing much better than any of his peers currently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I'm wondering how Ireland would get on if they were in France's shoes this summer. France sending a weakened squad makes me think Ireland could have lined up some Tests against the All Blacks even with 16 or whatever the number is away with the Lions. And they'd have had a more legitimate reason for first choice players being unavailable. I haven't made a list of all the absent French frontliners, but it's probably close enough in number to the number of Ireland Lions players.

    To bolster the squad against stiffer opposition Ireland could have selected a handful of more experienced players - a last hurrah for POM and Murray perhaps (Healy probably wouldn't have been necessary with Boyle, Milne and McCarthy good loosehead options). And if selecting for the here and now maybe Thomas Farrell would have made the cut. Others like Herring and Henshaw would possibly have made it back from injury too for a more prestigious series.

    Some of the Ireland players with the Lions are poaches - Aki, Lowe, JGP - so them being unavailable would give a truer reflection of what the representative team should look like anyway. Irish rugby didn't create those players. And soon enough project players will largely be a thing of the past, so Ireland have to get used to standing on their own two feet without them.

    I feel Ireland tours to tier two nations during Lions tours are a bit of a relic of when Ireland were a less good team. They're one of the big boys now, and who they face should reflect that. England usually tour Argentina during Lions tours. Ireland could take a step up and face bigger teams in the future - playing Australia during a Lions tour of NZ, for example.

    But maybe two and three test tours down South will be a thing of the past once this new Nations Cup or whatever it's called comes in. I don't really know the details.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The depth in France - a country with 30 fully professional teams - and Ireland is not anywhere near on the same plane. There is a reason the SAANAR nations are all playing non-Lions teams.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭typhoony


    I was surprised he wasnt at the JWC as i heard a Terenure lad saying he would be eligible this summer. I would say it will be 2026 at the latest. He can still play for Leinster i thought or is he classed as an NIQ so can only play in non-senior games.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,415 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    NIQs can play in any game? Regardless, the NIQ designation is entirely an internal IRFU policy so they can designate him however they feel like.

    The Terenure lad doesn't know, because nobody knows for sure at the moment. There was certainly a hope he would be eligible by now but clearly he isn't.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    YeYeah That's what I thought. I thought they could have 5 total NIQ with one of them being a on a pathway to being Irish qualified. Leinster only has 3 NIQ for next year. Gabriel could be an NIQ on the pathway to Irish qualification.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,952 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Got around to seeing the Georgia game this evening.

    • Functional performance, without ever seeming to hit our stride. Scrum was under serious pressure at times, and our maul looked poor on both sides of the ball.
    • Casey the best player on the pitch for me. We all know of his pass quality, but his kicking here was excellent too. Twice, his kicks from half-way had them under serious pressure inside their 5m line. And we seemed to retain possession from his kicking an awful lot. Delighted for him with the try as captain as well.
    • (And if a French player made the pass from Baird's lineout steal after ~65 mins, we'd all be salivating).
    • TOB did well, 2 tries, but particularly his ruck work was very good.
    • Coombes too, involved a lot, showed his typical workrate, carries, tackles, couple of offloads and turnovers.
    • Thought JOB was quietly efficient whenever play came his way.
    • I don't think either of the starting 2nd rows particularly advanced their case. Would like to see Ahern start vs Portgual.
    • And I don't think our centre pairing had particularly good games either.
    • For me, a pretty typical Prendergast performance; what he did well, he did well, and what he did poorly, he did poorly. For example, the 2 sideline conversions were excellent (and his boot is undoubtedly huge; got some distance on the goal-line kick out) but, imo, he should have finished that try and I'm still not convinced his tackling has improved at all.
    • And Crowley should've been on sooner imo. Yes, Stockdale got injured, but we were 19 points up after ~41 mins and 22 up after ~61 mins. Coming into the 2 games, I was expecting the 10's to start one game each and that's still what I think will, and should, happen, so in that context it's not a massive deal, but I do think on occasion we are too hesitant to use our bench.
    • Gutted for Stockdale. Looked lively in the few involvements he had.
    • Complete aside, but that Georgia jersey was lovely. Love a simple jersey with a collar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,301 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    I believe for a player to qualify under residency, its 5 years in country after they turn 18.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭PMC83


    I think your over estimating how good a second string Ireland would really be. When we won the NZ tour our best team was playing at it's absolute peak. In more recent years Ireland A teams have been thrashed by England away and at home in the RDS by an Abs 15.

    Moving away from touring the tier two counties during Lions years would be absolutely terrible for the game. If anything we should see more of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,903 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I thought so too, but Fabian Holland (age 22) is able to play for NZ so there must be some other angle



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,204 ✭✭✭✭phog


    It was one of those days and games where a player was going to find it hard to shine, I didn't think the pecking order was going to change over the summer tours anyway but looking at the game on Saturday confirmed that. I thought Casey was MotM but you can see why they went for O'Brien. Sam mixed the poor and the good, the big no no from me was that he should never have put his foot in touch nor be that close to the line especially when no defender was in reach of him. We were rather lucky that the TMO called back two of their trys, it could have made a very different game of it had they scored them.

    Poor Stockdale got a terrible injury, not having much luck either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,301 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    True. And both him and Anton Segner played NZ u20s.

    Ok, I have no idea how residency qualification works for players that move as teenagers.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,711 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    In August, World Rugby announced a change to Regulation 8 for national team eligibility that stated: “From August 1, 2024, any player with a genuine, close, credible and established link to a union is no longer required to complete 60 months [five years] of unbroken residency in the relevant country right up to the first time that player represents the union.

    “Under the revised approach ‘rugby registration” over a 60-month period will need to be demonstrated via registration with a rugby body, including a national union or club.“

    From

    https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/350441206/highlanders-lock-fabian-holland-jumps-all-blacks-frame-after-world-rugby#:~:text=He%20was%20not%20expected%20to,has%20dramatically%20changed%20the%20picture.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,301 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Thanks. It makes it clear the 5 year rule doesn't apply anymore but its vague on what the qualifying criteria is. It seems that as long as they've been playing during their residency, then they become eligible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    I was pretty disappointed with the two locks too. They're both players that I like but it seemed like neither really made a big impact. Aherne came on and made three good carries that I noticed. and just seemed more aggressive. He probably deserves a start this week. Henderson might be alongside him then with Murray and Izuchuckwu competing for the bench spot.

    Henderson is probably on the way out of Irish squads so we need one of those three to claim his place.

    I'd imagine Crowley would have been on sooner if not for the Stockdale injury. Hopefully he gets the start this week now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,392 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,040 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Izuchukwu hasn't kicked on the way I'd hoped. Right now he reminds me a bit of Ryan Baird from a few seasons ago. He's an athletic freak that can make the big play, but if that doesn't pan out he's sort of just there. Will make tackles and a few ok carries. But won't have the impact you'd hope.

    Baird appears to have improved a lot over the last 18 months or so in that regard. He's far more involved at the lineout and his tackle and ruck work is far more aggressive. Hopefully Izuchukwu follows suit.

    Baird is playing extremely well at the minute, but the competition we thought there'd be for POM's jersey doesn't appear to have materialised. Nobody else has performed well enough other than the Leinster man. Cian Prendergast might be an option, but we don't know as he hasn't been well enough to make a start.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,711 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    should help with casper gabriel as well, should he develop to test level.

    Its situations like his, where he went home for a few weeks during covid, thus breaking his residency, which this amendment seems to try to deal with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,392 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Yeah anything during COVID should not be held against a person.

    If a close relative or friend passed away and you felt you needed to spend time away to help in some way, that should not go against you either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,040 ✭✭✭✭Clegg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    It's an interesting one. What Ireland probably don't have relative to France is a lot of young tyros - players 23 and under - who are first choice or thereabouts for their province/club, i.e. getting enough exposure to come into consideration for international selection at a young age. There are a few in Ulster because of how much turnover there's been in the squad and them not having much money for signings. McNabney and Jack Murphy look to be starters outright, and Postlethwaite and Wilson are probably close enough for it not to make much difference. But across the other provinces there's probably only Sam Prendergast and Hugh Gavin (although Jamie Osborne is also seeing enough high level gametime to be a really good option). On the other side of this there'd probably be a fair few cases like Matthew Devine stuck as third choice and not getting a huge amount of exposure. Charlie Tector and Hugh Cooney would have a hard time breaking into the Leinster first XXIII for a big game with Leinster opting to go to the market and bring in Ioane. If Devine came through in France maybe he would have spent the season before last on loan in ProD2 and then returned to his original club and played a lot as first or second choice.

    It's true that there have been no shows from the A team the last two times they've played but the scratch nature of those teams does make it difficult. I look at the Ireland and France lineups from last weekend and for a lot of the head-to-heads I'm thinking Ireland should be competitive - Tixeront v Timoney, Tom Spring v TOB, Slimani v Clarkson, le Garrec v Casey, etc.

    My read on it is there are enough players getting provincial gametime for Ireland to be able to field good quality second and third strings. Obviously if you went down to 10th choice French selection versus 10th choice Irish France would have the better readiness by probably a long way. Ireland 2nds of course would be more susceptible to key injuries having a detrimental effect. France have a lot more options if they're looking for a particular profile of player, which is probably especially relevant in the front five.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,155 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I'm no doctor, would an AC joint injury be a number of months out?

    Edit: A google search brings up the answer that it could be anything from 2 to 8 weeks to fully recover if no surgery required. Fingers crossed that's the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,319 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Good Summary.

    TOB is going to bring allot to this Irish team. Would like to see Killgallen get a run at 11/23.

    I thought Georgia wouldn't be up to much but It was still Impressive seeing how Casey (also loved that pass!) and Prendergast guided the team from the very start.

    Wanted to see more of Ben Murphy.

    Scrum did ok. TH put the squeeze on Boyle a few times.

    I'd start both Baird and Ahern in the Second Row v Portugal.

    v Portugal

    Jimmy O’Brien; Tommy O’Brien, Hugh Gavin, Jamie Osborne, Killgallen / Nash; Jack Crowley, Craig Casey; Jack Boyle, Tom Stewart, Tom O’Toole; Ryan Baird, Thomas Ahern; Cian Prendergast, Alex Kendellen, Gavin Coombes.

    Reps: Gus McCarthy, Michael Milne, Thomas Clarkson, Darragh Murray, Max Deegan, Ben Murphy, Sam Prendergast, Nash / Killgallen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭Rocko


    Could we see Ireland International Rugby games being brought to Cork if they get a municipal stadium?

    If Cork Gaa gets a €30million bailout from the Government to clear their debt and get the Government to take over the running of Pairc Ui Chaoimh, I assume there will be a big push to get international Rugby & Soccer games to Cork.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    No. All internationals are played at the Aviva as that's a stipulation in Aviva's sponsorship deal.

    Where are you getting this idea that the government is going to bail them out from?



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