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Hamas strike on Israel

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,535 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its reported here in Nature

    First independent survey of deaths in Gaza reports more than 80,000 fatalities

    This was up to January this year, so statistics missing more than 6 months of people being bombed, shot, shelled, starved to death and deprived of essential medical care

    The Lancet are a reputable journal who have a track record of doing studies of war zones and estimating death tolls. Their estimates are the benchmark figures for both the Iraq war, and the congo and as an independent source, I think they are worth listening to, certainly more trustworthy than Hamas or the IDF.

    (The Hamas health ministry has been validated so we know it is not overcounting deaths, but we also know that it is certainly undercounting the casualties as it only reports on verified deaths directly attributed to military strikes, and their capacity to record deaths accurately has been massively diminished through the Israeli bombing campaigns)

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,535 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The prima facia evidence of the deliberate massacre of an incomprehensible number of non combatants comes from the reports of hundreds of people being dismembered by tanks firing into crowds of starving people queueing up for aid, and people being murdered indiscriminately by drones hovering above said crowds, and by half tonne bombs dropped on tents full of journalists trying to shelter from the heat and use the internet to report on the war, and by the number of hospitals that have been destroyed, the aid trucks blockaded, the fire bombing of refugee camps, the children with bullets to the head, the testimony of pretty much every western doctor who has volunteered to help treat the wounded….

    The testimony of IDF soldiers themselves who report they are ordered to kill innocents, the testimony of Israeli government ministers who say the goal is and should be, to kill every Palestinian who doesn't leave gaza….

    We don't need a letter from the lancet to know what is happening in Gaza, we will find out afterwards what did happen. What we want is for Israel to stop the genocide now instead of apologising for it later.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,949 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Trump and the DOGE muppets cut funding for the National Weather Service, less staff meant fewer scientists working the data to warn of severe weather and danger to life.

    I'm sure he'll find some way to blame Biden and the Democrats for this though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Nope, I take exception to you trotting out a nonsensical narrative which ignores loads of things we see going on around us.

    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, no idea how many people have been killed. Hamas could be inflating numbers (I doubt it given the very real and apparent level of destruction), but does an article about 1,000 kids being removed not show they are trying to be accurate? Surely they would have left those 1,000 kids on the list if they are lying so much.

    But again, you have no idea what you are talking about regarding deaths as Israel, for some reason, don't keep numbers, and won't allow journalists in to verify numbers. But trust sheepy eh.

    Did you know Israel are discussing (bribe) with countries in Africa to taking in Palestinians? Aka voluntary migration

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/israel-in-talks-with-congo-and-other-countries-on-gaza-voluntary-migration-plan/amp/

    https://www.axios.com/2025/03/28/israel-move-palestinians-gaza-indonesia-somalia

    Direct comment from that ghoul Smotrich

    If we take out 10,000 a day it will take six months. If we take out 5,000 a day it will take a year," he said.

    Thats great blow em up, kill their doctors, destroy their homes, burn their farms, starve em, steal their land, and f*ck em off to the Congo, hey it's voluntary migration. Nah we should ignore this and trust sheepys narrative.

    And that Smotrich quote isn't just rhetoric, they are actively pursuing this along with the US, that clown is just dumb enough to say it out loud.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,535 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It took the Israelis weeks to properly count the number of victims of October 7 and that was with complete forensic control over the area that the attacks happened in

    In Gaza, requiring every death to have a death certificate before it can be counted, in a war zone, where there is no electricity, or infrastructure, where the people responsible for processing the paperwork are being bombed and displaced and where there is a constant stream of casualties that overwhelm any possibility of investigating each death properly

    There are reasons why genocides have mass graves and why it takes years for the true death toll to be revealed. The first thing the Israelis did, was attack the civil infrastructure of Gaza, propaganda efforts to reduce the ability to record and report on the brutality of attacks, they attacked the UN and any independent observers, got their allies in the US and UK and others to defund UNRWA, and called every single civil servant in Gaza a 'member of Hamas' and targeted them.

    And yet you have the absolute shameless brass neck to say that others who recognise that the number of dead have been under reported are deliberately inflating the casualty rate.

    It is the duty of every independent person to account for the deliberate efforts Israel has made to under report on the number of human lives they are destroying.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,535 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If Hamas in Doha are the orchestrators of the attacks on October 7, why are Israel bombing the arms and legs off innocent children in Gaza?

    If they had demanded extradition of all these Hamas leaders on October 8th, they would probably have gotten them all turned over immediately. Instead, they launched a genocide and Netanyahu's blood lust turned global sympathy and anger towards Hamas, into the permanent loss of any international respectability for this blood thirsty Israeli regime

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Nothing from my post was opinion. Just little facts I picked up along my shocking and depressing journey through this conflict. Anybody can Google what I posted and look it up for themselves.

    But be careful, if they do your little narrative wont make a single lick of sense to them, as it doesn't to anyone who isn't depending on their virulent racism and islamophobia to inform them of their "feelings" on this conflict (because that's the real reason ye cheerlead all this death and ignore the rest, right?).

    And regarding the subjugation of the West bank, are you seriously saying it's all grand because a village or two has some Hamas lads in it?

    Because according to you Ireland is full of Hamas supporters, can Idf blow all us up and steal our homes too? Be careful what you wish for, they'll probably take out your home, they don't really seem to differentiate.

    Maybe then some sheepy doppelganger in, I dunno, the Galapagos islands, can defend the destruction of your family and friends in their countries little message board and go to sleep feeling very proud of themselves whilst making the world just that little bit worse a place than it was before they posted it. Wouldn't that be ironic.

    And what are you trying to say with that article - that Israel are murdering / displacing / stealing / colonizing / knocking down thousands of homes and subjugating their Palestinian neighbors to help them defeat Hamas?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Lawlesz


    ok, let’s for a moment ignore the absolute rubbish you’ve posted, you clearly want to ignore all metrics. One question: how many people do you believe are dead as a result of the Israeli attack on Palestine?

    Forget the usual crap and propaganda and ranting about Hamas. Tell us how many you think have died?


    I won’t even bother going to the next step in asking how many you think are justified before it becomes a war crime, because it’s patently obvious that you don’t have an issue with that. It’s also patently obvious you will resort to whataboutery and ignoring the question, so again for clarity, I’ll ask


    how many people do you think have died in Gaza since the Israeli attempt at annihilation?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    The Lancet didn't do a study.

    They literally just published a letter. A letter, not a study.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    Not a single line in this rant provides any evidence that the death toll is significantly higher than the 50-60k normally reported.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    Who said Hamas in Doha were responsible for Oct 7th? I certainly didn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    Your arguement makes perfect sense.

    IDF want to kill a hamas operative so let's warn him ahead of time so he'll make sure to turn up to be killed while the civilians will stay away

    It'll be grand. He won't cop onto what's happening.

    Tragic that civilians are getting killed but that's what happens in a war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭dmcdona




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    That's what an army does who wants to wipe out people who can do it's citizens harm.

    Innocent people get killed in war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    When did I say anything different about 50-60k? In my posts I said it seems low, but I'm happy to go with it. So again I'll ask, address what I'm saying and stop manufacturing a pov to argue against.

    You are the one who said the population would be more or less the same in Gaza when this is all over, after a poster said offhand Israel are trying to make it a Palestine free zone. There are other ways to remove them from Gaza you know, you don't have to kill them all (and yes, even if you don't kill em, it's still genocide).

    Come here, if they ship 10,000 a day to the Congo for 6 months, like their illustrious minister for finance has said (and they are actively discussing this with impoverished countries btw)- how many Palestinians would be left?

    Ohh another one incompatible with your narrative, sorry sheep. But sure don't address it, just store it in that ignore part of your brain (if there is any room left in it), and continue your defence of warcrimes, good lad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    Nothing from my post was opinion.

    It was certainly your opinion that Hamas weren't operating in the West Bank. You stated it clearly.

    I showed you that they most certainly are, and causing such sufficient misery for the people there that the PA had to call the Israeli's in to help them deal with them.

    Now you're claiming Jenin is a village. It's not. Its population is around 300k.

    You should try and learn a little about the complexities of the region before you go around posting opinions as 'little faxts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    You mean the IDF? The lads who killed scores of their own citizens on Oct 7th? Executed three of their own hostages? Executed 15 unarmed medics? Those lads? The ones killing unarmed civilians wiring for food?

    Hasbara - hook line and sinker.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    That is a link to a article on a new report. A discussion only.

    I saw no link to the actual report itself. It did say that the report was not peer reviewed which is not a good start after 6 months.

    But let's give it the benefit of the doubt. It still a long way from the 75k violent deaths it claimed to the 480k dead you're claiming if you add this report to the alleged missing 400k.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I never said anything about Jews nor did I say they lied. Their bias is clear from the get go though.

    Odd how you jumped straight in though and accused me of calling Jewish academics of lying. I wonder why you did that?

    Seems you are having a lot of trouble with facts, which was the case a while back as I recall. First you say no one referenced the lancet letter because it was not credible. Then, hey presto, you post two links doing exactly that. You're struggling with the concept of credibility yourself it seems.

    And that you've linked to that bastion of cutting edge data analysis and academia, err, aoav.org ? is the icing on the cake.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Here you are caring about Palestinians misery again, move over mother Theresa.

    Pls address the annexation, thanks

    And yes, Hamas would obviously have a presence in the west bank, I should have said the West bank isn't Hamas, apologies.

    I also know about Jenin thanks, but Hamas don't have control of it, the PA do. Hamas and other terrorists operate from the refugee villages, right? Doesn't explain all the death, destruction and thievery going on across the territory.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    It is the duty of every independent person to account for the deliberate efforts Israel has made to under report on the number of human lives they are destroying.

    it is the duty of every independent person to ignore the noise and ascertain the facts, and not blindly repost propaganda for either side.

    You posted an outlandish claim that there are 400k missing in Gaza.

    That number, 400k, is based on a report that has being going around on social media for about a week, and taken up by many of the 'I am not pro-Hamas, but will blindly repost any article critical of Israel' brigade.

    I posted a link to an article where the author of that report completly debunked the falsehoods based on a deliberate reporting of his efforts.

    That misinformation was/is a deliberate attempt to inflate the casualty rate. And you reposted it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭DayInTheBog


    So Israeli soldiers were killing Israeli citizens on Oct 7. I thought I'd read a load of rubbish on this thread but this post caps it. Let's not blame Hamas for killing Israeli civilians and definitely let's not kill their operatives so they can't do it again.

    Your hatred of Israel has consumed you to the point where your posts are irrational.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    No one needs to inflate anything to make Israel look bad - they're successfully doing that without any assistance at all.

    Arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant, sanctions on Smotrich and Ben-Gvir (a convicted terrorist), sanctions in a number of Settlers, a case of Genocide on the State of Israel before the ICJ, the murders of women, children, journalists, doctors, aid workers - even scores of their own citizens.

    Nope - no-one needs to inflate anything at all. The world sees Israeli atrocities ever single day. As stated by Israelis themselves, it is a Pariah state committing war crimes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    Yes, if Israel flies 500k Palestinians to The Congo in hot air balloons, then the population of Gaza will be significantly lower. It's such a real possibility.

    Otherwise the population will be about the same at the end as at the beginning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    Pls address the annexation, thanks.

    There is no annexation. You'll just have to wait and see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I suggest you search for "Hannibal Directive" and inform yourself.

    There's probably nothing more embarrassing than claiming another post is "rubbish" by posting rubbish and exposing one's own complete ignorance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

    That report was missing 150k bodies a year ago. It would be surely missing twice that by now if you extrapolate out their figures for another 12 months.

    It's just not credible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    They might even see your head up there in the clouds eh?

    But nah it will be airplanes and boats and people loaded on by people with guns. Voluntary migration, such a lovely term. Many of them might take it to given the systematic and sustained destruction of their way of life and the elimination of their future. When the time comes, I'm sure you'll tell us its a kindness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,462 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    If innocent civilians being killed in war isn’t a big deal. Why all the outrage about the civilians killed on October 7th.
    Is killing civilians ok or only killing Gazan civilians?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Not credible - according to you. Hmmm.

    Now explain why you accused me of posting that Jewish academics are liars. Is that credible?



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