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Hamas strike on Israel

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Comments

  • #46022
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604703#Comment_123604703

    I suggest you go and look at the UN definition of Genocide then come back here and provide the table of numbers that the UN uses to categorise the various levels of Genocide.



  • #46023
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,415 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604907#Comment_123604907

    It is what the Israelis have done for ages… a sick and depraved society

    but hey they get a free pass in the west and those who oppose them will be pursued by trumped up charges

    Gu-zqwjXkAASuY0.jpg


  • #46024
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,279 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604458#Comment_123604458

    If Bob Vylan (whoever the hell he is) had said "death to HAMAS", we wouldn't even be taking about it.



  • #46025
    batman75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 850 ✭✭✭batman75


    What the IDF are doing in Gaza is one of the greatest crimes against Humanity in our lifetime. Going after Hamas is a complete red herring. It's an ideology. The IDF is Hamas's greatest recruiter. I find it staggering that Israel can destroy Gaza and get away with it. It has killed as a minimum 10's of thousands of Palestinians in the strip since October 7.

    America's role in this is equally shameful. Both Biden and Trump are guilty of assisting Genocide as is Starmer in Britain. What kind of hold does the Israel lobby have on politics in both the U.S and Britain that these men assist a monster like Bibi in annihilating masses of Palestinians.

    Israel doesn't respect international law. It's population has been indoctrinated to hate Palestinians. It has violated it's generally accepted international borders to build illegal settlements on Palestinian land. It turned Gaza into an open air concentration camp and now having levelled it are deliberately starving the population. This is clearly a monstrous regime backed by an equally barbaric people who have lost basic humanity.

    We used to think of South Africa when the word apartheid was used. Well now if applies to Israel. It is an ethno supremacist state since its founding in 1948. A Jewish state for Jewish people. Even the native Arab Jews are treated differently to the Ashkenazi Jews. Israel as it currently exists is incapable of living in peace with it's Arab neighbours.

    The one hope we have is that Israel gets back into the ring with Iran again. That might cause the country to collapse and permit a more viable future for all the people between the river and the sea. The current Israel is rotten entity which brings misery to the Palestinians and neighbouring countries.



  • #46026
    brickster69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,637 ✭✭✭brickster69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604907#Comment_123604907

    It was actually a recording of the old incident but from a different camera, not a new incident.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



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  • #46027
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,546 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604535#Comment_123604535

    There are over 400 thousand missing people on Gaza. Thats 20% of the population who have disappeared. (They haven't actually disappeared, they are buried under the rubble)

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #46028
    sheepysheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605095#Comment_123605095

    An absolute lie and easily debunked.

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-harvard-study-gaza-missing-palestinians-86b40dc1de388e860927495c00880d59



  • #46029
    Gerry T
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604873#Comment_123604873

    Can you point out the propaganda, is it:

    Israel stealing land

    Israel breaking a cease-fire

    Israel killing innocent people under the guise of targeting hamas

    Israel blocking food trucks and shooting innocents at food banks

    Or is it other propaganda you're talking about ?



  • #46030
    sheepysheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604637#Comment_123604637

    No. They're fair comment.

    If someone is suggesting that the British legislative, executive, and judicary all have combined in cahoots with the forth estate to protect Israel then that's just a rehashing of the oldest antisemitic trope of all and should be called out on it.

    The fact that it's not openly expressed, just implicitly implied, doesn't change the situation.

    Regards the second post. There have been numerous attempts by numerous posters to inflate the numbers killed, the most recent being this new 'Harvard' study which has just been revived again by another poster (Askeria), and I'm provided a solid debunking of it with the attached article.

    Why is that? Why do posters continually post debunked false information about deaths other than to mislead and drive a narrative that the death figues are muliples of times higher than in reality.

    It's not just the numbers either.

    An entire lexicon has been used to imply a Holocaust level number of deaths. Genocide, extermination, concentration camps, etc, etc.

    Some people badly want a genocide of Palestininas, and if they don't get one, they are perepared to invent one. It's shameful really.



  • #46031
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,546 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605113#Comment_123605113

    The most recent study says up to January this year there were 80k violent deaths directly from IDF strikes. This was based on household interviews of 2000 gazans in refugee camps

    The figure is very likely to be an under count because many Gazan families have been completely wiped out by the massive bombs dropped onto Gaza, often deliberately aimed at wiping out families.

    Since January there has also been a much bigger emphasis on blockading food, water medical supplies and destroying hospitals and shelter.

    There is horrific evidence of people who have already starved to death going back weeks.

    The lancet estimates 4 indirect deaths for every direct casualty based on the scale of the violence and the siege afflicting Gaza.

    I have absolutely no doubt that hundreds of thousands are dead at the hands of Netenyahu since October 2023

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • #46032
    sheepysheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605175#Comment_123605175

    The most recent study says up to January this year there were 80k violent deaths directly from IDF strikes. This was based on household interviews of 2000 gazans in refugee camps.

    What study is this?

    The 'Lancet' didn't estimate anything. They published a letter. A letter that no one considers credible, and is thus referenced by no one in academia or otherwise. Except by people on here of course.



  • #46033
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604753#Comment_123604753

    Given the difference of opinion between Hamas-Qatar and Hamas-Gaza was only reported less than two weeks ago, it has absolutely nothing to do with my posting before then.

    The "your admittal of this situation" is pretty childish to be honest (and presumably you meant "admission"). This is a discussion forum - not a Law Court.



  • #46034
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123604873#Comment_123604873

    In that case, you should contact Haaretz, BBC and RTE, the ICC, the ICJ, Humanitarian organisations, the Knesset and Israeli spokespersons for pumping out "propaganda". That's where I get all my sources.

    Presumably you believe the Genocide and War Crimes cases are just propaganda and the murder of innocents is a figment of someone's imagination.

    Feel free to continue to be non/mis informed and post the only arguments you have left.



  • #46035
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,106 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605192#Comment_123605192

    You should note that the current Hamas Ministry figures account for only those whose deaths could be verified and a death certificate issued. Anyone killed and buried under rubble for example is not included in any total. A very conservative estimate by experts is that 100,000 people may have been killed so far.



  • #46036
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605192#Comment_123605192

    Provide a source/report showing the Lancet letter is not credible.



  • #46037
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Some details of the proposed cease-fire - Hamas response should be known in 24hours - hopefully they will accept.

    Note - there appears to be no detail on the provision of humanitarian aid to the Palestinians.

    Hamas is set to issue its response to the latest proposal for a cease-fire in Gaza, with U.S. President Trump saying Friday that the group's response would probably be known within 24 hours.

    • According to a draft version of the agreement obtained by Haaretz, the deal would see eight living hostages released on the first day of the cease-fire, and two more on the 50th day.
    • The document states that five bodies of hostages will be returned to Israel on the seventh day of the truce, five more on the 30th day, and the final eight bodies on the 60th day.
    • The draft also calls for the mediating countries to ensure that the cease-fire continues for 60 days and that serious discussions are held on a permanent cease-fire.
    • Hamas sources told Haaretz that the group had expressed its willingness to stop producing and smuggling weapons, end digging tunnels and dissolve its military apparatus in Gaza. The sources said Hamas may agree to a symbolic and temporary deportation of a few of its officials, if it leads to an end to the war.


  • #46038
    sheepysheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605206#Comment_123605206

    The division was reported back in Febuary, not two weeks ago.

    Hamdan also said the idea of Hamas disarming is not up for discussion. The group “was not erased” by the war, he said, adding that it will regroup and continue “and I am telling you, we have an opportunity to expand.” Hamdan added that the region should retain the ability to “to slap Israel whenever it wants… as we proved on October 7,” 

    Hamdan’s statement appeared to contradict a claim by another Hamas spokesperson, Hazem Qassem, that the group is not “clinging to power” and does not have to be part of arrangements “in the next phase.”

    “Hamas has shown a lot of flexibility on this matter. And we say clearly that it is not necessary for Hamas to be part of the political or administrative arrangements in the next phase, particularly with regards to the Gaza Strip if that is in the interest of our Palestinian people,” 

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/hamas-rejects-disarmament-vows-fight-145400085.html



  • #46039
    sheepysheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605246#Comment_123605246

    A good academic rebuttal of the rubbish, from the Lancet itself.

    In now-deleted posts on X, subsequent to publication of the Correspondence, one of its authors seemed to acknowledge that this number is “purely illustrative”. This “purely illustrative” number, weaponised against Israel, serves as a dangerously irresponsible provocation, and is now nefariously held up as prima facie evidence of a deliberate massacre of an incomprehensible number of non-combatants by Israel.

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01683-0/fulltext



  • #46040
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605276#Comment_123605276

    Your selective copy/past of text to attempt to justify your point is laughable. I didn't post a "contradictory claim" between two Hamas members which is what your link is reporting.

    I posted a report from Haaretz that outline a difference of opinion between Hamas Gaza and Hamas Qatar - not two Hamas lads having a slight disagreement.



  • #46041
    sheepysheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605224#Comment_123605224

    I have no doubt some people are buried under rubble, just not 400,000.

    Even Al Jazerra can only claim around 10k.



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  • #46042
    sheepysheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605310#Comment_123605310

    They're not simply two Hamas lads. They're spokespersons, for two widely divergent perspectives between Gaza and Doha.

    The schism in Hamas has been widely known for a long time. Just because you're not aware of it isn't my problem.



  • #46043
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605292#Comment_123605292

    Once again, your selective copy/paste to try and prove a point is pure nonsense.

    And that you left out that the rebuttal came from Haifa is disingenuous. Let's see what they said that illustrates their bias:

    There will be no hope for such recovery so long as Hamas continues to hold the hostages it captured in its premeditated, vicious, and murderous attack perpetrated on Israeli civilians on Oct 7, 20232,3 (not mentioned by Khatib and colleagues as the trigger for the unfolding tragedy)

    Once again, Israelis giving out yards for people not condemning the Hamas attacks of Oct 7th.

    Its also very telling that you posted:

    The 'Lancet' didn't estimate anything. They published a letter. A letter that no one considers credible, and is thus referenced by no one in academia or otherwise

    So, your link clearly shows someone in academia actually did reference the Lancet letter.

    And I'll wait for the list of everyone else, bar the two Israelis, who considers the letter not credible.



  • #46044
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,462 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605313#Comment_123605313

    Isn’t there a name for people who dispute how many people were killed in genocides?

    Do you dispute the 6 million figure or do you take that number as incontrovertible fact?

    How about Rwanda?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #46045
    dmcdona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605330#Comment_123605330

    Hmm - so a disagreement, as you posted it, is all of a sudden a "schism"

    You seem to read an awful lot into what you can find using Google.

    I just post corroborated reports from respectable journalists.



  • #46046
    sheepysheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605333#Comment_123605333

    I hate to point it out to you, but Jews are allowed to write for the Lancet too, and also to be academics.

    The fact that you can only consider Jewish academics to be capable of lying says it all, and how far down the rabbithole you've gone.

    Here's another.

    While the letter in The Lancet draws attention to the severe human cost in Gaza, its methodology for estimating indirect deaths lacks rigour. 

    https://aoav.org.uk/2024/a-critical-analysis-of-the-lancets-letter-counting-the-dead-in-gaza-difficult-but-essential-professor-mike-spagat-reviews-the-claim-the-total-gaza-death-toll-may-reach-upwards-of-186000/

    The bottom line is you are missing 150k dead bodies, which trumps any paper claims, and you have no evidence whatsoever that these bodies have all been eaten by dogs or buried under rubble.



  • #46047
    sheepysheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605346#Comment_123605346

    A lot of people consider CNN to be somewhat respectable.

    The schism has been commented on from as far back as Oct7th 2023.

    It's not even now widely known if Hamas in Doha, or even the mullahs in Tehran, were really aware of the scale of what Hamas in Gaza were planning on Oct7th.

    One group live in 5* luxury, the others are in a warzone. You don't need to be an expert on the ME to realise that this would present a large possibility for widely different perspectives.



  • #46048
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,548 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605346#Comment_123605346

    Presumably you include the BBC who were conned by Hamas in a recent programme.

    UK govt very uneasy about the apparent lack of background check which allowed this.



  • #46049
    sheepysheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605341#Comment_123605341

    When it comes to the Holocaust, they're normally called antisemites.

    When it comes to inflating numbers of deaths in Gaza to make Israel look bad, the name is probably somewhat similar.



  • #46050
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,869 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605420#Comment_123605420

    How many people do you think the IDF have slaughtered in Gaza?



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  • #46051
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,462 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123605420#Comment_123605420

    You dispute the numbers of a genocide. Do you believe disputing the numbers of some genocides should be a crime as is the case in many countries?


    The estimated numbers killed at Austwitch were reduced from 4 million after the war to 1 to 1.5 million in the 1990s. Do you dispute this or use this reduction to question other figures as you seem to be implying in the Gaza genocide?

    Do you think reducing the number of people killed in the Gaza genocide would make Israel look any better?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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