Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

Look a few posts up. I already said there's no evidence to be had.

Then you tried to close out the whole debate saying you had evidence.

If a couple of polls of 12,000 voters with vague issue headings can be called evidence of why people didnt vote for the Greens then we'll have to agree to disagree on that. To me its a big stretch.

I was just laying out the evidence I had.

That's not trying to close down a debate.

You have no evidence to offer to support your assertions.

Call it agree to disagree if you like.

"I'd say..." is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that post.

On the other hand when voters were asked about the issues that influenced their ballot they had their "say".

They didn't say DRS was a major factor.

You are not the first and you won't be the last to resort to rubbishing polls when they don't support your point of view.

19 percent cited "cost of living" in the exit poll. Quite plausible that within that is a reaction against schemes such as eg DRS.

I havent seen details of how the exit poll feedback was collated, if responses were freely offered or picked from a list.

But if you look at the 2020 v 2024 polls they dont account for the drop in support for Greens...

"For younger voters aged up to 35, housing was by far the most important issue, while for older voters it was health… just 6 per cent of all voters said climate change was the most important issue."

In 2024 it was 4% on climate change and Greens got less than that.

So the polls dont explain why Greens got 7% in 2020 versus 3% in 2024.

Entirely reasonable therefore to discuss DRS in relation to that.

Depends on what scale it is off. And how much higher is way higher. Odd stats, but very vague.

On another point, DRS is not a price increase, so didn't add to the cost of living. The logo products increased in price in some cases, but completely unconnected to the deposit. The big cost of living inflation came as a result of the Russian war.

I can accept that deposits are not part of the price and therefore not a direct price increase.

However, adding a deposit has undoubtedly led to price increases. These have come about in many ways:

1. By creating price confusion, the deposit enables retailers to abandon familiar price points. Consumers no longer instinctively know the price and are more uncertain on what things will cost. This was very pronounced in the first 4 months when some products had deposit, some not, then people not fully understanding which item is +15c, which +25c etc. Many would know that, in the 4 month period for example a €2.60 soft drink pre-DRS could easily become €2.95 (or €3.25) including deposit without any resistance from consumers.
2. While it was possible for retailers to keep the old price (incorporate the deposit), the industry as a whole moved together to raise prices. Because it was an industry initiative, implied licence to act together was given. This removed any risk of losing out due to natural competition. All to the cost of the consumer.
3. There is reduced choice on the market now vs before as smaller producers and importers face higher barriers to entry. Reduced competition not good.
4. Undeniably, certain items, like 24 pack slabs, are now forever gone. The 24 Coke for c. €10 is now 18 Coke for the same price point (plus €2.70 deposit). You will still see 24 packs in NI for around €10. Large pack items were the way consumers could save by buying in bulk, this entire option is basically gone from the market.

I would conclude that manufacturers and retailers have successfully passed on any additional fees from DRS they may have faced to consumers, and then some. DRS created a once off opportunity to reset pricing upwards, and they took advantage.

The environment to confuse, the ability to act in as an industry to raise pricing, and reduced competition has meant DRS has been great for them.

That is without considering the greenwash effect - with re-turn positioning DRS as a 'solution' to plastic use, re-turn effectively absolve producers from doing anything to reduce SUP production. Hold any R&D in finding an actual sustainable alternative. Reduce the PR effort about your sustainability programs. Don't worry about pivoting plastic to glass or cans, or finding actual circular solutions. Continue promoting on the go, single use sizing. And best of all, have a government funded quango with more money than it can ever need pay for the green wash marketing drive; creating feel good associations with everything from kids charities to saving the planet to enabling better local communities.

Retailers are not idiots. They were being forced to put a 15/25 cents increase on the price at the till. So what do they do. Stick on another 30/50 cents? No they are not idiots. The prices index proves that the categories in the scheme had very moderate increases since the scheme. But before DRS, as with many other catergoies they had massive increases, due to the War.