Limerick GAA Discussion Part 2

corks blueprint as u say worked once and by skin of teeth. Since then they have not beaten limerick. 2 draws and a limerick hammering. I dont know what happened v dublin but im sure it will come out sooner or later.

People here saying limerick results all year poor etc. well offaly finished above Dublin in the league.

Lads, that Limerick team have been on the go for quite a while. It was inevitable there would be a fall from grace.

Some of them lads started in 2015/2016, most were on the panel in 2017. Obviously 2018 they kicked on and came good, but whatever way you look at it, for most of them it's the guts of a decade of hurling.

In all honesty, you'd have to compare them to Kilkenny under Cody for this one. Kilkenny won 3 in 4 years from 2000-2003, only a great Galway performance in 2001 arguably prevented a four on the bounce (not to discount Tipp winning the final that year either). But after that run, there was a serious renewal of the team and squad, and it led to an eventual 4-in-a-row. After 2009, bar a few core players Like Shefflin, Delaney, Tyrrell, Larkin, Tommy Walsh, Brennan and Power, there was another serious changeover in personnel, in pretty much every area of the field, and on the panel. Three different Kilkenny era's under Cody, 2000-2004, 2005-2009, 2010-2016, bar a handful of players on all three sides, most of the Kilkenny players started for one group and were subs for another. They were essentially three different teams.

Limerick have no such level of renewal. In the main, it's pretty much the same core group of players from 2017 onwards that are starting now. They've been doing the business time and again every year since 2018 (this is the first season since 2017 they haven't got a SF). That's an awful lot of hurling, especially in the round robin era. Ridiculous levels of success achieved, but that also means a ridiculous amount of big games and big campaigns. A fair bit of renewal of the first 15, and the panel, is required to keep going, but Limerick really haven't done that, with the exception maybe of Hannon moving to the bench, but decreasing levels in performances dictated that, and O'Neill sticking his head up.

You can't keep going forever, muscle memory and been-there, done-that, did-it-again, know-what's-needed will only keep you going for so long.

Limerick looked tired on Saturday, arguably mentally more than physically. Maybe it was a combination of things, but a lot of little mistakes that have been rearing the heads over the past 2/3 seasons turned into big ones, poor decision making, poor awareness, over-elaboration, looking for a hand-pass when the point was on, things like that. Even the thing like the throw, they've been caught more than most this year for it, but everyone knew it was an issue in the sport and it's openly being discussed regularly, and the refs were giving more frees for it because of it, but some of the Limerick frees for throws this year were just lazy and blatant compared to others. That wouldn't have happened a few years ago, they'd just have adjusted, moved the ball different and just kept winning.

Tactically as well, Limerick have looked jaded. A bit like when Kilkenny started fading after 2015, you knew what you were going to get from Kilkenny. They problem for Kilkenny was, you knew what you were going to get from Kilkenny, and teams adjusted for them and planned around them. They went from AI champions in 2015 to not making the QF's in 2017, they had become predictable. Something similar has happened to Limerick, definitely in the past two seasons. Where before they were battering teams, they were now scraping by them. Where they were scraping by them, they're now drawing or losing narrowly. Sometimes a change-up in tactics is required once in a while to shake things up, and while you can't blame Kiely and Kinnerk for sticking with what was still winning tactics, despite still winning, the signs were there the past two seasons, league and championship, teams were copping on to Limerick and finding ways of getting around them.

And again, renewal of the team and renewal of the panel helps combat that. Bar 5/6 players, Kilkenny in their pomp had pretty much a brand new team every 5 years, and pretty much a new panel after 7/8 years, and with it different styles that come with different players, and different energy. Limerick, unfortunately for them, haven't had the same rate of player turnover or different type of player.

And while you can't tie everything into one poor performance in 7/8 years (albeit with great Credit to Dublin who were genuinely outstanding on the day), it's more a succession of no in-their-pomp-opposition-destroying performances than one poor performance that has seen Limerick gone from a 10-15 point winning team to a narrow wins/draws/narrow defeat type team, it has looked like it's been a fairly slow decline the past two seasons, even if they had been in the main still winning.

I think it has been a decline. They have the hurling quality to bounce back, that goes without saying when you're dealing with a generational team, it's whether they have the freshness to do it. Saturday would suggest that maybe they don't have that freshness that renewal of the team or panel might bring, and that might hasten the decline. No guarantee what the future will bring, but it's certainly looking more down than up for this group of players.

PS - For all of Limerick's brilliance over the past 7/8years, it's clear to most people outside Limerick that no-one has been more vital to them than Aaron Gillane. For my money, I don't think ye would have won as much as what ye have without him, he is simply on of the greatest forwards to have ever played the game. He is without a doubt Limerick's best, most consistent and most important player. Between making the ball stick up front, to allow the HF/midfield to run onto it, the points from all angles, the coolness on the placed balls, his outrageous ability in the air, his sheer creativity, how he brings other into play, his physical presence when battling for the ball. A proper forward, one of the greats.

He is still Limerick's most vital player, especially in terms of his hold up play and bringing others into the game, and they've become more reliant on him I feel over the past two seasons with Lynch having a few off days, Morrissey and Hegarty drifting in an out of games as they do these days, and a few others maybe not as consistent as they used to be. He's been outrageous for Limerick, and when he's on form, Limerick are on form. A real leader of the team.

He had a shocker on Saturday, or rather Dublin had him incredibly well marshalled. Without Gillane making the ball stick and bringing people into play, Limerick looked a little bit directionless and leaderless up front, the runs weren't the same, the space to run into wasn't there, instead of being held up, the Dublin backs were getting out clean to give great ball forward, or create overlaps. If ever a games showed up how important Gillane was to Limerick, and indeed his greatness, it was that very average performance on Saturday, you don't know what you have until you don't have it as they say, and on Saturday Limerick didn't have an on-song Gillane. He's not a one man team, but he is by far Limerick's best player, and you snuff out Gillane, you go a long way to beating Limerick. The last time I saw Gillane that well marshalled was the 2019 AISF, another Limerick defeat, and that's a fair while now.

To say ye'll miss him when he's gone is one hell of an understatement.

Pretty good summary I'd say agree with a fair amount of that.

If you get more shots and miss them that doesn't make you the better team.

It makes you shte at shooting.

Wouldn't agree with that and we'll see how good Cork are in the next few weeks - I don't think they're as good as some make them out to be. As for Limerick hurlers, JK could stay another year if he has the appetite and energy but not PK - new more influential voices required. What's Leo O'Connor at these days? Bring him in for next year and give him the top job the year after. But that's enough on the hurlers - well done to the footballers and even though I couldn't give two hoots about football anymore, I'm delighted for them and hopefully they'll get big support in the final. I hope the county board and local radio get behind them over the next two weeks and get a bandwagon/hype train going because it must be gawling to be so much in the shadow over the last 7 years.

jesus, whatever about not accepting that Cork won the MF (and there’s always that fight when a team wins on penalties) but are you denying Cork won the AI Semi last year too?

I do think the venue of the two Cork matches in Championship so far this year was and is relevant too. The Gaelic Grounds are much narrower than Croke Park. I personally don’t think the Limerick backs of 2025 would have kept the Cork forwards to just one goal if they had met in CP this year (of course you might argue the same re Gillane et al). What worked in the GG wouldn’t necessarily translate. Another reason why playing Dublin (who like Cork are fast) in CP was a mistake in my view. Space was not Limericks friend in 2025.

anyway, conscious that coming onto the Limerick thread today is borderline WUMing to start with so I will leave it at that.

Ye have 5 all Irelands in the last few years, we are all well jealous of that.

Unfortunately I think the time has come for a refresh in Limerick to re-energise the squad so even if PK is still the hurling savant people say he is, I think it's necessary for us to part ways. He may go on the great success with another county but we have to look at what's best for us going forward.

Since 2024 I had Limerick tipped to win the AI this year, hard luck lads. With hindsight the warning signs were possibly there: injuries, a poor league, draw with an up and coming Tipp side, beaten by Clare. Since 2024 Munster Final, they've had one really big win: against Cork in the Munster round robin at home.

At least ye still have the football though!

People can discount Dublins performance and pin it on an underperforming Limerick as the reason for that result, and there is some truth in that. But for any team to play with 14 men for that length of time, never mind it being one of their most important players sent off, already having lost their best defender to the football and Donal Burke not being able to start for them either. It was an immense performance.

That being said, we aided it. The mental toll of the last 7 years has now converged with the physical tolls mounting on ageing players. We started strong in the first 3 games and then the fall off began.

A hall mark of the Cody era was that nobody was safe on that Kilkenny squad. When your time came, even before it came, Cody had no problem push players out to make room for more. I accept we have not got he conveyor belt that had at that time, but you have to make room for new blood and new energy. Its the single biggest criticism of Kiely. Far far too loyal to his core 15 odd players. Only 2 young players managing to get into the 15 each day. Murphy, in the squad since 2018 only getting their first start this year. It has been a closed shop.

Dowling had no business falling back in with the squad this year. None. And when Quaid returned, it should have been him, not Gillane that was dropped out of the 26. Instead we carried a 33 year old formerly retired forward turned goal keeper and lost another years exposure to the player who will be our #1 in a year or two.

Hannon had no business being in the 26 in championship this year. He did not play a minute of league coming off a season where it was obvious his legs were gone. He himself had the wherewithal to step down as captain but Kiely didnt have the balls to do what needed to be done. We saw dips in form at times this year from O'Donoghue, Morrissey, Hegarty, Byrnes but they were untouchables.

The great legacy Kiely has created will be tarnished with what is to follow if he does not start giving serious game time to the younger guys. To see O'Connor play so well and when he turns to bring on O'Brien he swaps the two, too afraid of puling one of his o.g's. Space in the HB line - perhaps start Coughlan. No, move the deck chairs, being Nash up instead. Need some energy for the 2nd half, what about young O'Dalaigh. No - Barry Murphy and Declan Hannon.

Next year Quaid is 36 turning 37 in championship, Dowling is 33, Finn will be 30, Dan will be 33, Casey will be 30, Byrnes will be turning 32, Hannon will be 33, O'Donoghue will be turning 32, O'Donovan will be turning 31, Hegarty will be 31, Lynch will be 30, Tom Morrissey will be turning 30, Gillane will be turning 30, Reidy will be turning 33 and then youve Barry Murphy, Barry Nash, Flanagan and Peter Casey all 29 odd. That is unsustainable.

Jason Gillane, Coughlan, Hurley, Fergal O'Connor, English, Stokes, Aidan O'Connor, O'Neill, O'Brien, O'Dalaigh need to start the majority of the league games and at least half of them need to be ready to start next years championship. You cannot expect us to put out the same 15, 16 17 players from 2018/2019 again next year and expect us to win an All Ireland

I'd imagine that the management team will stay in place for next year, and hope that they do.

In the event that Kiely elects to step aside, appointing a replacement would be a huge call. You'd need someone with a strong personality who'd have the confidence to do his own thing and the energy to drive the group on.

It'd be a huge step up for anyone currently or recently involved with under age teams.

The man I'd go after would be Derek McGrath. He brought Waterford further than anyone else has in a long time. Their performances around 2016 and 2017 were excellent and they were involved in some absolute epics.

Leading Doon over the line for the first time was no easy feat. He's very highly regarded by their players....O Donovan rated his coaching set up as comparable to Kiely/Kinnerk.

What about Leo O'Connor?

Kiely has earned the right to stay as long as he wants and owes us nothing however if he did decide to call it quits we are just suggesting who could be in the hat to replace him.

Not sure Derek is the right fit for Limericks mindset, he was very defensive minded with Waterford, i think after the success Kiely and team have had(i think he will do next year aswell) they may well promote from within ie. Dodge or someone in the management team already there, if Kinnerk wanted the main gig I'm sure they'd give it to him, might be where he wants to go next.

Interesting outline an age range is needed and younger players need experienced players around them to bring them on.

The core team has been incredible they are not finished by any means early 30's isn't over the hill but before a mass retirement new players need to be brought in.

wasnt she at munster for a while and it didnt work out