Limerick GAA Discussion Part 2

biglad40isback

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123571633#Comment_123571633

corks blueprint as u say worked once and by skin of teeth. Since then they have not beaten limerick. 2 draws and a limerick hammering. I dont know what happened v dublin but im sure it will come out sooner or later.

People here saying limerick results all year poor etc. well offaly finished above Dublin in the league.

Greensoup

Dublin out worked limerick, mopped up breaking ball and released to players in space who weren’t tracked. Dublin players taking shots unmarked shows the Limerick attitude was we’ll win this without over extending ourselves and be ready for Kilkenny. Sport is all about getting the mental side right. Limerick thought it was just a matter of turning up, winning by 5-6 points, nice run out in Croker to prepare for semi. Why else would they agree to go there for the game when they could have said no. It’s a pity as regrets aren’t worth much. Same with fans - very few young limerick lads on the hill as the ones I know were saving for Kilkenny game.

randd1

Lads, that Limerick team have been on the go for quite a while. It was inevitable there would be a fall from grace.

Some of them lads started in 2015/2016, most were on the panel in 2017. Obviously 2018 they kicked on and came good, but whatever way you look at it, for most of them it's the guts of a decade of hurling.

In all honesty, you'd have to compare them to Kilkenny under Cody for this one. Kilkenny won 3 in 4 years from 2000-2003, only a great Galway performance in 2001 arguably prevented a four on the bounce (not to discount Tipp winning the final that year either). But after that run, there was a serious renewal of the team and squad, and it led to an eventual 4-in-a-row. After 2009, bar a few core players Like Shefflin, Delaney, Tyrrell, Larkin, Tommy Walsh, Brennan and Power, there was another serious changeover in personnel, in pretty much every area of the field, and on the panel. Three different Kilkenny era's under Cody, 2000-2004, 2005-2009, 2010-2016, bar a handful of players on all three sides, most of the Kilkenny players started for one group and were subs for another. They were essentially three different teams.

Limerick have no such level of renewal. In the main, it's pretty much the same core group of players from 2017 onwards that are starting now. They've been doing the business time and again every year since 2018 (this is the first season since 2017 they haven't got a SF). That's an awful lot of hurling, especially in the round robin era. Ridiculous levels of success achieved, but that also means a ridiculous amount of big games and big campaigns. A fair bit of renewal of the first 15, and the panel, is required to keep going, but Limerick really haven't done that, with the exception maybe of Hannon moving to the bench, but decreasing levels in performances dictated that, and O'Neill sticking his head up.

You can't keep going forever, muscle memory and been-there, done-that, did-it-again, know-what's-needed will only keep you going for so long.

Limerick looked tired on Saturday, arguably mentally more than physically. Maybe it was a combination of things, but a lot of little mistakes that have been rearing the heads over the past 2/3 seasons turned into big ones, poor decision making, poor awareness, over-elaboration, looking for a hand-pass when the point was on, things like that. Even the thing like the throw, they've been caught more than most this year for it, but everyone knew it was an issue in the sport and it's openly being discussed regularly, and the refs were giving more frees for it because of it, but some of the Limerick frees for throws this year were just lazy and blatant compared to others. That wouldn't have happened a few years ago, they'd just have adjusted, moved the ball different and just kept winning.

Tactically as well, Limerick have looked jaded. A bit like when Kilkenny started fading after 2015, you knew what you were going to get from Kilkenny. They problem for Kilkenny was, you knew what you were going to get from Kilkenny, and teams adjusted for them and planned around them. They went from AI champions in 2015 to not making the QF's in 2017, they had become predictable. Something similar has happened to Limerick, definitely in the past two seasons. Where before they were battering teams, they were now scraping by them. Where they were scraping by them, they're now drawing or losing narrowly. Sometimes a change-up in tactics is required once in a while to shake things up, and while you can't blame Kiely and Kinnerk for sticking with what was still winning tactics, despite still winning, the signs were there the past two seasons, league and championship, teams were copping on to Limerick and finding ways of getting around them.

And again, renewal of the team and renewal of the panel helps combat that. Bar 5/6 players, Kilkenny in their pomp had pretty much a brand new team every 5 years, and pretty much a new panel after 7/8 years, and with it different styles that come with different players, and different energy. Limerick, unfortunately for them, haven't had the same rate of player turnover or different type of player.

And while you can't tie everything into one poor performance in 7/8 years (albeit with great Credit to Dublin who were genuinely outstanding on the day), it's more a succession of no in-their-pomp-opposition-destroying performances than one poor performance that has seen Limerick gone from a 10-15 point winning team to a narrow wins/draws/narrow defeat type team, it has looked like it's been a fairly slow decline the past two seasons, even if they had been in the main still winning.

I think it has been a decline. They have the hurling quality to bounce back, that goes without saying when you're dealing with a generational team, it's whether they have the freshness to do it. Saturday would suggest that maybe they don't have that freshness that renewal of the team or panel might bring, and that might hasten the decline. No guarantee what the future will bring, but it's certainly looking more down than up for this group of players.

PS - For all of Limerick's brilliance over the past 7/8years, it's clear to most people outside Limerick that no-one has been more vital to them than Aaron Gillane. For my money, I don't think ye would have won as much as what ye have without him, he is simply on of the greatest forwards to have ever played the game. He is without a doubt Limerick's best, most consistent and most important player. Between making the ball stick up front, to allow the HF/midfield to run onto it, the points from all angles, the coolness on the placed balls, his outrageous ability in the air, his sheer creativity, how he brings other into play, his physical presence when battling for the ball. A proper forward, one of the greats.

He is still Limerick's most vital player, especially in terms of his hold up play and bringing others into the game, and they've become more reliant on him I feel over the past two seasons with Lynch having a few off days, Morrissey and Hegarty drifting in an out of games as they do these days, and a few others maybe not as consistent as they used to be. He's been outrageous for Limerick, and when he's on form, Limerick are on form. A real leader of the team.

He had a shocker on Saturday, or rather Dublin had him incredibly well marshalled. Without Gillane making the ball stick and bringing people into play, Limerick looked a little bit directionless and leaderless up front, the runs weren't the same, the space to run into wasn't there, instead of being held up, the Dublin backs were getting out clean to give great ball forward, or create overlaps. If ever a games showed up how important Gillane was to Limerick, and indeed his greatness, it was that very average performance on Saturday, you don't know what you have until you don't have it as they say, and on Saturday Limerick didn't have an on-song Gillane. He's not a one man team, but he is by far Limerick's best player, and you snuff out Gillane, you go a long way to beating Limerick. The last time I saw Gillane that well marshalled was the 2019 AISF, another Limerick defeat, and that's a fair while now.

To say ye'll miss him when he's gone is one hell of an understatement.

biglad40isback

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123571768#Comment_123571768

bang on. I knew when it was a limerick point in the cusack as there was silence. I knew it was a wide for limerick when there was loud roars. I was at the hill end and the hill was thronged as they all piled in at halftime and created a massive home feel for Dublin. Not the atmosphere u need when chasing a game or when things are going wrong.

I dunno how many limerick fans were there but it wasnt much.

I believe we wouldn’t have lost at thurles or portlaois but as u said we thought of a run out in Croke Park

C4000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123571817#Comment_123571817

Pretty good summary I'd say agree with a fair amount of that.

FantasyFool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123571724#Comment_123571724

😂 The Cork Blueprint worked twice last year! In Pairc Ui Chaoimh last year Shane Barrett basically retired Declan Hannon and loyalty/stubborness stopped Kiely and Kinnerk changing up their team for Croker.

I honestly think Kiely should resign. He clearly has lost the head since the semi final last year (storming down the tunnel after the league game for example). Even his insistance to say they drew the Munster final after the game on Saturday- Jesus Christ like- Cork were comfortably the better team in normal time (10+ more shots). The penaltys were a shite way to finish it but both teams knew how it would finish if they couldnt get it done from open play.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123572079#Comment_123572079

If you get more shots and miss them that doesn't make you the better team.

It makes you shte at shooting.

FantasyFool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123572104#Comment_123572104

It shows a level of dominance though. Taking all bias out of it Cork were clearly the better team in normal time.

LeoD

Wouldn't agree with that and we'll see how good Cork are in the next few weeks - I don't think they're as good as some make them out to be. As for Limerick hurlers, JK could stay another year if he has the appetite and energy but not PK - new more influential voices required. What's Leo O'Connor at these days? Bring him in for next year and give him the top job the year after. But that's enough on the hurlers - well done to the footballers and even though I couldn't give two hoots about football anymore, I'm delighted for them and hopefully they'll get big support in the final. I hope the county board and local radio get behind them over the next two weeks and get a bandwagon/hype train going because it must be gawling to be so much in the shadow over the last 7 years.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123572194#Comment_123572194

Between the new rules and our tactics if you were ever to get into football this is a team to do it with. We are direct by football standards and love to take the man on particularly Neville who plays like a silky soccer forward.

Those frees from the sideline on the 45 were savage and the same lad also saved a well taken penalty.

Kildare are a Sam level team so we need them to be a bit off form as well as putting in our own top performance.

Rebelbrowser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123571724#Comment_123571724

jesus, whatever about not accepting that Cork won the MF (and there’s always that fight when a team wins on penalties) but are you denying Cork won the AI Semi last year too?

I do think the venue of the two Cork matches in Championship so far this year was and is relevant too. The Gaelic Grounds are much narrower than Croke Park. I personally don’t think the Limerick backs of 2025 would have kept the Cork forwards to just one goal if they had met in CP this year (of course you might argue the same re Gillane et al). What worked in the GG wouldn’t necessarily translate. Another reason why playing Dublin (who like Cork are fast) in CP was a mistake in my view. Space was not Limericks friend in 2025.

anyway, conscious that coming onto the Limerick thread today is borderline WUMing to start with so I will leave it at that.

Ye have 5 all Irelands in the last few years, we are all well jealous of that.

Rebelbrowser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123572194#Comment_123572194

If ye are finished with Paul Kinnerk, can we have him please?

LeoD

Unfortunately I think the time has come for a refresh in Limerick to re-energise the squad so even if PK is still the hurling savant people say he is, I think it's necessary for us to part ways. He may go on the great success with another county but we have to look at what's best for us going forward.

LeoD

That free was something else and he's some size of a unit for a goalie. The county will now be watching them in two weeks so I hope they put in a performance to be proud of.