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Random EV Thoughts 2 - The Jimnying

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭sk8board


    yeh I don’t know, he just said they asked him to take it and use it as it hadn’t been driven for ages. I’m surprised they still had any of them left tbh, they were v publicly selling them a year or two ago



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,429 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I'd imagine my above examples of the Jeep and Polestar should hold a nice amount of luggage and passengers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,304 ✭✭✭wassie


    Only way they will achieve these targets is if more Chinese manufacturers can get their cars homologated and sell their cars in the EU. And there is the small little issue of tariffs.

    Australia is a key RHD market that is unaffected by any tarrifs and design rules are heavily influenced by UNECE regulations. Given fewer restrictions, plus geographical proximity, Chinese manufacturers are clearly using it to test the export market.

    This is the current list of Chinese brands for sale in Aus:

    • BYD
    • GWM (Great Wall Motors) - including their EV sub-brand Ora
    • MG (under SAIC Motor ownership)
    • Chery (including their EV sub-brand Omoda E5 and possibly Jaecoo for SUVs)
    • Zeekr (under Geely ownership)
    • Xpeng
    • Geely (re-entering the Australian market with an electric SUV)
    • Deepal (under Changan ownership)
    • Leapmotor

    Expected to Arrive in 2025 and beyond:

    • Nio (Battery swap technology)
    • Denza (BYD's premium sub-brand)
    • Aion (Guangzhou Automobile Corporation or GAC)
    • IM Motors: Closely related to MG (under SAIC Motor), IM Motors is positioned as a luxury sub-brand.
    • Foton
    • JAC

    Only approx 91,000 were sold there last year with Tesla & BYD accounting for half of all EV sales. That doesnt leave a lot of room for the rest so clearly many are unlikely to survive long term.

    Will be interesting to see how it plays out and what RHD cars end up in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,429 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I think one key thing they could do is make it cheaper to import a pre-loved EV from the UK. Currently you need to pay duty, VAT and VRT where applicable. If they gave a grant to the value of those taxes, effectively bypassing the EU tariff, you could see an influx.

    There used to be a 10k grant for buying a new EV, that got reduced to 5k and now stands at 3.5k. EV sales have also dropped, I don't think it's a coincidence



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,011 ✭✭✭creedp


    I could be wrong but I thought €5k was the max SEAI grant plus VRT relief. So the max reduction has been only €1,500.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,429 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    VRT relief tapers as the price of the car gets higher while the SEAI grant is currently €3.5k (formerly €5k and €10k) and applicable to all cars under a certain list price

    Open to correction on my figures but I think the VRT relief is 100% for a €40k car and tapers to 0% for a €60k car while the grant is for any car under €55k



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,011 ✭✭✭creedp


    Not an expert and have never claimed one but my understanding was always that the max SEAI grant was €5k now €3.5k (max value of car €60k) and the max VRT was €5k (zero VRT up to €40k car price)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,429 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I'm sure somebody will be by in a few minutes to correct both of us

    In any case the fact is that the grant was reduced, and with it came lower sales of EVs, looking back it might not have been the smartest thing to do



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,675 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    You're questioning was there ever a 10K SEAI grant in the early days?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,011 ✭✭✭creedp


    I could be wrong again but the grant reduction also coincided with a significant price reductions in many of the more popular EVs (e.g. the ID4, Model 3, etc) which has resulted in EVs now being more affordable than they were prior to the grant reduction



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,011 ✭✭✭creedp




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,615 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,429 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The answer is yes, and it also applied to PHEVs at one point



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭September1


    No, there was 5k SEAI Grant and 5k VRT relief and in 2017 they added BIK discount https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of-public-expenditure-infrastructure-public-service-reform-and-digitalisation/speeches/budget-2018-statement-of-the-minister-for-finance-and-public-expenditure-and-reform/#addressing-climate-change



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,855 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭innrain


    VRT relief never reaches 5k. It is a publicity stunt …up to 5k

    Vehicles with an Open Market Selling Price (OMSP) of up to €40,000 will be granted relief of up to €5,000. Vehicles with an OMSP of greater than €40,000 but less than €50,000 will receive a reduced level of relief. Reliefs have been removed for any electric vehicles above €50,000.

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/vrt/calculating-vrt/electric-hybrid-vehicles.aspx

    VRT relief peaks at 2.8k for cars priced at 40k.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Pre 2021 VRT on EVs was 14% with a VRT Relief of up to €5,000. When they changed the EV VRT rate to 7% they introduced the sliding scale between 40k and 50k. The max relief available comes on a car with an OMSP of €43,859.64 where you'll get €3,070 of VRT relief.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 742 CMod ✭✭✭✭LIGHTNING


    I see SMART has dropped 10k off the Smart 1. Its not 25k with 0% finance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,733 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    There's the argument that the government grants were essentially subsidising car companies to have higher prices without passing that onto the customer.

    Probably crucial during the early years where the car companies are still establishing EV design and manufacturing processes and as a government you want to stimulate the foundation of those processes.

    And then after a few years, either the manufacturers have embraced EVs and now have the scale to be able to reduce prices because their costs are lower, or they haven't embraced EVs so tough luck, you're on your own.

    Not really sure which side of this I come down on, I want to see the EV transition fully succeed, I think it's critical for many things, but at the same time there's definitely a strong sense that car companies were being greedy and suckling happily at the EV grant teat without passing any savings onto customers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,689 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Went to NEVO for an hour or so this morning on way to shopping trip to Kildare village.

    Saw some cars i hadn't really seen before, smaller selection from local dealerships means you can have a good look at everything there.

    Ariya on the way in, wasn't getting much attention from anyone while I was there but I think its a very impressive car to look at and sit in, very underrated car and a logical step for the masses of Qashqai drivers out there when the time comes, its a fair bit bigger though.

    Bmw IX next, ugly and overpriced. Wasn't getting many looking at it.

    Toyota had 2 PHEVs there, a Prius and something else I can't remember, Prius nice looking shape but very uninspiring interior.

    Fiat 600 nice looking car for some Im sure, not my thing but will have its market. Very dark inside, Jeep avenger beside it not great inside either.

    Renault 5 there in yellow iconic 5 trim, we laughed that we might have to try change colour again ! It was beautiful, having my doubts about my green one ordered being the best choice but we are staying firm. Just glad went for one of the pop colours anyway.

    Poor Opel aren't even trying, the grand land and astra must be the 2 most underwhelming cars I've seen recently. Don't know how they expect to compete, brand loyalty from Italia 90 maybe.

    Tesla Juniper there, looks well, nice materials inside, loads of space. I think its the Tesla steering wheel which is just a circle with no design is my best favourite thing about them. Change that and id start to consider one. But im sure its a really good car, Elon fighting Trump now instead of helping him might help sales.

    Smart#1 and #3 there look lovely, the #1 advertised from 25k but no way was the one there a 25k car.

    2 Mercedes EQE AMG 43 and the SUV EQE too, really nice feel to them inside, I wouldn't get them in the specs there though, one had yards of piano black inside you could see the fingerprints and the other had bright white steering wheel, both those interiors would be grubby quickly.

    New ioniq 5 in N line spec has much better revised interior, very impressed. If I was in there in the market for an EV it would be the one id be following up on next week if i had a 40 to 50k budget. Im not actually messing when I say if they were same prices, same range, same power etc id choose the Hyundai over the BMW IX and either of the Mercedes there, just think its a nicer car hands down.

    Inster is a revelation, im not a fan of the outside design but its nice inside and amazingly spacious.

    A few heavy hitters missing, nothing from VAG group at all, or Kia, all of whom have new models out and ones I like so a bit disappointed there.

    No BYD or MG or any of the more recent Chinese entrants.

    But well organised, plenty of cars out back for test drives which I didn't take as im not currently in the market for buying anything.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,967 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    Did the VAG group boycott this event ? (Cupra/Skoda/VW/Audi/Porsche)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,855 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Supposedly local car dealers only. Maybe no VAG dealers locally?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,689 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    I dont know Joe. Most dealers at it I recognised as Kildare dealerships close to the event, makes sense as most people would be local enough that attended, there's 1 group in Naas do all the VW group brands except for porsche, so maybe it was just the dealership wasn't interested.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,967 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    Thanks. Yes, strange that Sheehys didn’t turn up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,429 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    In fairness, that's always a risk when you subsidise anything. Perhaps directly subsidising the European manufacturers like they did in China would have been a smarter move. Not sure if it's too late to do that now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,615 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.electrive.com/2025/06/16/study-on-climate-advantages-of-electric-cars-held-back-in-switzerland/

    Interesting study by the Swiss government about whether it's more environmentally friendly to keep an old ICE car or immediately replace it with an EV

    Supposedly the report showed no benefit to keeping an old car running and switching to electric had significant environmental benefits

    This is in contrast to the cohort that claims the process of battery manufacturing is so carbon intensive that it's better to keep a car running

    However the Swiss government has refused to publish the report because they don't want to anger the more right wing elements of society

    I've heard some folks say we're in the age of policy by tweet, all you need is to moan about something on social media and complain it's "woke" and our supposedly centrist politicians will immediately say they'll "do something" to ensure they don't lose ground to far right parties

    I don't think it's a universal truth myself but this certainly feels like a great example of it

    Anyway it basically just confirms what other studies have already done, although having a government department say it gives it more of an air of legitimacy IMO

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,429 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    There was once a study done in Ireland that found road collisions to be higher on Fridays, I **** you not

    Sometimes we, as a collective population, need to stop looking at studies and use our eyes



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 742 CMod ✭✭✭✭LIGHTNING


    So here is my notes after a few weeks of test driving and research.

    Screenshot 2025-06-19 125212.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,824 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    There was once a study done in Ireland that found road collisions to be higher on Fridays, I **** you not

    What's surprising about that?

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭MightyMunster




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